this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2023

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Immigrants explain why they're leaving Canada (www.ctvnews.ca)

submitted 10 months ago by Mereo@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca

34 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Immigrants to Canada are increasingly leaving this country for opportunities elsewhere, according to a study(opens in a new tab) conducted by the Institute for Canadian Citizenship and the Conference Board of Canada.

In fact, the number of immigrants who left Canada rose by 31 per cent above the national average(opens in a new tab) in 2017 and 2019.

According to the study, factors that influence onward migration include economic integration, a sense of belonging, racism, homeownership, or a lack thereof, and economic opportunities in other countries, the report revealed.

all 36 comments

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[–] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 42 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Canada has become a car culture nation, I'm living abroad right now so that I can be a pedestrian without fearing for my life.

[–] 1bluepixel@lemmy.world 24 points 10 months ago (2 children)

The state of public transport in Montreal makes me so angry. This city used to be an examplar of public transit.

[–] BedSharkPal@lemmy.ca 21 points 10 months ago (1 children)

And I'm over here in Ottawa looking at you guys as the gold standard.

[–] Mereo@lemmy.ca 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Same here. Everytime I go to Montréal, I'm amazed by their transit.

[–] Oderus@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

Lived in Montreal for 9 years and now live in Calgary. I weep when I think of Montreal's transit vs. Calgary's transit.

[–] otter@lemmy.ca 1 points 10 months ago

I haven't tried enough of the transit outside of Metro Van

How would Montreal compare to transit here (for those that tried both)

[+] Shake747@lemmy.dbzer0.com -40 points 10 months ago (7 children)

We're the second largest nation in the world by landmass, but with a population that's only the size of California.

How do you not have a "car culture" in a nation like that? People need to get around, and transit can really only accommodate those in cities

[–] Pxtl@lemmy.ca 40 points 10 months ago (1 children)

About half the country lives in the Windsor to Quebec city corridor, a region with population density of Spain.

Most of the northern wilderness is unoccupied. It makes no sense to say we can't have good passenger rail just because Victoria Island exists.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 21 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Yeah nobody is saying that the Yupik villages need subways, but Toronto should probably have a good light rail.

[–] PuddingFeeling907@lemmy.ca 27 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Cities need to be much more transit/pedestrian oriented because they do not cover much area.

Cars should be used for servicing the country and for visiting towns.

[–] Cavalier7435@kbin.social 25 points 10 months ago

Do people have to drive all the way across the country every single day? The size of the country does not dictate its dependency on the automobile. North American cities were walkable before the car and they can be walkable again. Car dependency is a result of policy not the size of the country.

[–] DerisionConsulting@lemmy.ca 24 points 10 months ago

The issue isn't that living in Edwin or Newton in Manitoba is based around driving a car, it's that life in Winnipeg, Manitoba is still based around driving a car. The problem is that car culture is still what cities are built around.

[–] dirkgentle@lemmy.ca 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REni8Oi1QJQ

[–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 2 points 10 months ago

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[–] yildo@kbin.social 3 points 10 months ago

On average, how many times a year do you go from Thunder Bay to Whitehorse versus how many times a year do you get groceries around the block?

[–] folkrav@lemmy.ca 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

The overwhelming majority of the population lives in a narrow ~100km band over the southern border. How do you not have a decent transit system when its so concentrated?

[–] Ryan213@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago

Oh good, maybe this will help with the housing crisis. Lol

But in seriousness, I know a few people who've moved to the US for better pay. Not worth it for me but I can see why people move.

[–] Peanutbjelly@sopuli.xyz 18 points 10 months ago (1 children)

"What we found is a withering, uncertain and anti-working class government, happy to sell promises it never intended on keeping"

I think this and the "hard work does not correlate with rewards" seem to be apt.

Many are brought over with flowery words hiding the fact that they will be competing with an already struggling working class.

Everybody I know thinks trying to raise a kid right now is not only unfeasable, but unethical. The couple working class people I know who had kids regardless are in debt and struggling despite working as much as they can.

Then the newspapers post articles like "why are selfish lazy millennials choosing not to obtain things like homes and cars, or attempting to have children."

It's frustrating and disgusting. Especially when you see things like the complete failure of antitrust. Big surprise that Rogers just locked out hundreds of old Shaw union workers.

There's something terribly wrong with the power imbalance, and this is more evidence to throw on the depressingly obvious pile.

[–] Dearche@lemmy.ca 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It's especially bad when those same newspapers also write articles about how most millennials are living paycheck to paycheck, and a single unexpected $1000 expense is enough to bankrupt them.

I can't count on how many people I've seen who's become borderline alcoholics as they can't handle life between work and bills without a steady supply. I live and work in relatively better off parts of Toronto, yet I see dozens of people who are homeless or dealing with serious psychiatrics problems. Seeing someone begging on the streets or trains has become almost a daily occurrence despite it having been quite rare a decade ago. Not to mention all those who sleep on the trains and buses rather than trying to get anywhere.

We as a country have been steered the wrong way for a good decade now, and every measurement I've seen regarding the human life index, happiness, international reputation, etc, have all pointed that out. Canada isn't the bastion of freedom and equality that it used to be. Virtually all our leaders on every level have failed the population, including the opposition.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

We as a country have been steered the wrong way for a good decade now,

It's been in motion for a lot longer than that.

[–] Oderus@lemmy.world -1 points 10 months ago

Glad you clarified. That should make things easier to fix now.

[–] girlfreddy@lemmy.ca 15 points 10 months ago (1 children)

"We are thus compelled to return to a society where taxes lead to tangible public services, healthcare is a given right, not a privilege and where schools are havens of learning, unmarred by the pervasive reach of politics."

Canada's gleaming palace of prosperity is actually a slum run by greedy politicians and hedge funds who just want to steal everyone's money for themselves.

Born and bred in Canada, but if I could afford it I'd head to Europe as well.

[–] zephyreks@lemmy.ca 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Canada got its key industries stripped away by the US (Boeing to Bombardier) and China (Huawei to Nortel). Now? All the jobs are fleeing South of the border and people are fleeing with it.

At least Huawei still employs a fuck ton of Canadian tech workers and is rapidly expanding. Huawei is footing the bill for a ton of big tech conferences in Canada. They're sponsoring a bunch of projects for Canadian undergraduate engineering students. They're hiring a sizable chunk of the graduates from Canadian universities in their focus areas and are happy to foot the bill for technical training. Frankly, Huawei is doing a better job of creating and keeping Canadian talent within Canada than most Canadian companies. They relinquished any IP control over research done in conjunction with Canadian universities.

Meanwhile, Microsoft uses it's Canadian offices as visa waiting rooms before shipping them off to the US.

[–] Poutinetown@lemmy.ca 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Meanwhile, Microsoft uses it’s Canadian offices as visa waiting rooms before shipping them off to the US.

Microsoft's game division includes Canadian studios like The Coalition and Compulsion Games. The latter literally relied on being acquired by Xbox in order to publish their 2nd (and 1st major) game, now they have grown from 40 to 80 since the game was published. Those studios are still located in where they were founded even after acquisition. In general, Microsoft has a hands-off approach with the studios, allowing them more freedom to develop games.

Sure, the game industry has its own problems and salary issues, which is something people in the industry are trying to improve, but at least the creative & technical talent stays here in Canada rather than being relocated, and many people can work in game studios for a few years before easily moving into other areas of software development.

[–] zephyreks@lemmy.ca 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, you're right about that, my bad.

I was thinking more in terms of the core tech teams - there's a decent EA presence here as well.

[–] Poutinetown@lemmy.ca 1 points 10 months ago

Yeah it's unfortunate they don't have more core development in Vancouver. For instance, a major part of the Chrome team (and previously Stadia) was in Montreal. Microsoft should have been doing something similar in Vancouver (esp. considering the time zone too).

[–] slowbyrne@beehaw.org 2 points 10 months ago

And leaked docs show the UCP is planning on pushing more of Alberta's healthcare to wealthcare. Good times, good times. My wife and I (born and raised in Canada) actively talk about the ongoing degradation of Canada and we are seriously considering moving to Europe in the next 5-10yrs.

[–] Frederic@beehaw.org 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It has always been like that, there's 50'000 French immigrants per year coming in Québec. 50% leave the first year, 40 other % leave in the first 10 years. So after 10 years there's only 10%, 5000 people, staying, half of them will leave to retreat in France.

[–] SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

These are astonishing numbers. Do you have a source for this?

[–] Frederic@beehaw.org 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I must have had a 10x factor, no way there is 50k French people every year, 5000 sounds more normal. But the 50% of French immigrants going back to France in the first year, I saw it with my eyes, same for most of the remaining ones going back in the first 10 years.

There was a lot of internet forums years ago about french immigration, they about all disappeared :-/

[+] beatensoup@baraza.africa -7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I wonder who is expected to fix the country if everyone hops from whatever place they are for the next one as long as their personal income gets a little more money. Don’t get me wrong, I am all for personal progress and it’s pursuit. But I also realize personal progress is anchored on collective stability. There is something off with someone who hops and ditches a place based on assumed better outcomes round the bend.

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Or maybe many immigrants feel lied to about how Canada was advertised to them versus the reality of the cost of living and stagnant wages.

[–] jadero@lemmy.ca 2 points 10 months ago

I have some sympathy for that point if view, but it's not that simple.

Nobody, not even the most libertarian, wants to find themselves holding the shitty end of the stick, yet our political and economic systems are operating in ways that leave only the shitty end to hang on to.

We vote for improvement and get either the status quo or degradation.

We're told to vote with our wallets, but that just means bigger wallets get more votes. And if it looks like maybe the collective size of wallets is getting too big, corporations, aided and abetted by the political class, just arrange for fewer choices and smaller wallets.

Unsurprisingly, those with the will are starting to vote with their feet. People are starting to walk away from bad situations in search of better ones. Whether those better situations exist may be an open question, but they are not being any more selfish than those who insist on skimming the cream off for themselves.

It's actually an easy fix, if only the political class realized it. Tax every dollar sent out of the country at 90%. Tax every stock buyback at 90%. Tax every corporate cash reserve at 80%. Limit total compensation of each executive to 10 times that of their lowest paid employee. For essential goods and services, tax away any rise in profits beyond, say, 1% above inflation. No person or company is allowed to own more than 1 rental property with multifamily units treated as one property.

Take all that tax money and pour it into public health care, starting with free tuition to any health related education. Foreign students accessing this free education must practice in Canada for 5 years after graduation or be returning to work in public health initiatives. And fix the definition of health care so that it means what it says (dental, vision, hearing, mental, vaccines, and prescriptions are all health care that is uncovered or poorly covered).

Any money left over from that can be spent on actual environmental protection and remediation, starting with the climate crisis.

If any of that needs to be adjusted based on actual negative outcomes, then it will be adjusted, but the political class has to start by showing the general public that they mean business.

And if that sounds like I've got brain damage, that's fine. What we're doing is obviously not working out, so continuing the path we're on is also a sign of brain damage. At least I'm pointing out a different path.