NFL

We also need to take into account he is defense and special teams coach and both have been stifled by rule changes over his career to the point offense plays a bigger role in today's game.

He's a cheater. Plain and simple

I mean he is a cheater who has turned to shit without Brady.

So we're all just going to continue ignoring that Belichick and Brady are both cheaters? Okay...

P

His defenses are elite, no question, Brady with his long drives helped keep the defense on the bench too, Mac with his 3 and out trash are making it way harder on pats defense

Honestly though, I hate the reddit hivemind. Over reactionary on nearly every single topic. I'm a huge colts fan and I'd love to have a community to celebrate them but basically if you're not a superbowl winning team it's doom and gloom. Constant memes about how much it sucks to be a colts fan, blah blah blah.

Bill is one of the greatest football minds I've ever witnessed. Does he win as much without Brady? No. But Brady doesn't win ANYTHING wihtout Bill.

Bill is the man. And any ungrateful Pats fan can fuck right off.

I secretly hope the Pats do move on and Bellichek comes to Dallas and wins a SB or 2 so we can debate forever who needed whom. Brady or Bellichek.

I think he's obviously worse without Brady. But Brady was the best of all time. And BB won SO much with him. Compare them to the other best QBs of all time and it's pretty obvious that BB is a fantastic coach. Look at Dan Marino or Payton Manning. They were just as talented as Brady and they were much less successful.

I think what is happening is BB is in the twilight of his career. It happens to all the best coaches. And for whatever reason people are using it to disparage his whole career.

Personally I think he should have retired when Brady left and just let the question hang and the Pats move on to a new era fully.

He’s one of the worst GM over the last 5yrs and hasn’t had a solid draft in over 10yrs. I think he’s the GOAT coach but I also think Mayocks drafts as bad as they were are on par if not slightly better than Bills. Mayock was probably the worst GM of the last 5yrs so that should tell you something.

No one and I mean no one is above not having a franchise QB.

As a Michigan State football fan the only frame I reference I have for this is Mark Dantonio. Certainly the best football coach in my life who rose the program to heights it hadn't seen since the 60s, but nevertheless it was his time to go when it was his time to go. I don't think one bad season defines him, but certainly with him putting Patricia as the offensive coordinator last year, it has me really wondering if he thinks he's above reproach and surrounded by yes men.

HC B.B. - top tier, Mt. Rushmore of all-time coaches.

GM B.B. - extremely poor at his job and actively hurting Head Coach B.B.

Him being the GM, to me, is the problem and not his coaching

Supposedly Bill, is coming off a potential one night stand, getting caught stumbling out the next morning on a ring camera.

Ol boy is BACK. Bill got that dawg back in him.

I think a more fair bit of criticism for Belichick is that he hasn’t performed up to standard in his role as GM specifically. Many people believe he’s still a great defensive mind but has simply missed on too many draft picks over the last handful of years.

This happens anytime anyone who had a ton of success starts going downhill. There's a lot of "he never had it, was carried by _____". Unless you're a Barry Sanders who retires in prime, it's going to happen eventually.

The Patriots dynasty couldn't possibly ever be just one player. Hell, Peyton Manning has displayed about the level of skill Brady has, but could never pull off the postseason results, and you can't chalk that up to one being a winner and the other not.

It's easy to forget BB's genius when he's struggling now but he's done a hell of a lot of genius things that helped lead that team to the success they had. Would people still be saying all this if Brady hadn't won a SB somewhere else? Probably not. But that shouldn't affect anything, because that team was also well-coached and had a lot of things going well for it. It's silly to let something after the fact erase all of what people saw in that team and BB's role in their success.

Its just casual morons who don't understand the game. OMG Brady brought them back single handedly from 28-3. Absolutely no help from Belichicks defense holding the MVP and best offense in the NFL in the second half

Idk I‘m missing something but as far as I know Tom never played a game where the opposing team scored more than 43+ points. That’s still a lot but considering that he played for more than 20 years that’s absolutely crazy

Of the 6 Super Bowls that Brady/Belichick won it's very clear that Belichick should get more credit for 3 of them and Brady for 1 of them. The other 2 are mostly toss ups.

Brady made him.

Hey OP what is the average Offensive Points Per Drive for Belichick teams with Brady vs without? Also it's funny you mentioned his rings as a defensive coordinator when he had Lawrence Taylor but not his absolutely abysmal defenses when he was the de facto defensive coordinator for the Patriots in 2010 and 2011

To be fair the patriots have had problems for longer than this year, the record is just really bad this season.

Hiring all of his buddies into coordinator positions when they sucked, like Patricia at OC, and years of sub par drafting have put them in this position. It’s not just isolated to this season.

He’s been trending down for awhile.

I really hope Kraft is dumb enough to fire Belichick mid season. That will motivate him enough to go to another team and decimate

People need to be quiet. Pats fans calling for his head are the worst kind of fan. Fairweather fans. Just sit down and eat the shit. We enjoyed 20 years of excellence it's time to roll in the mud.

On the Brady v. Belichick argument, what gets me is that if Brady had been drafted by most other teams, I highly doubt he would’ve had the career he did. FFS, Bill held him as a 4th QB his rookie year. which was fucking INSANE. They made each other and there’s no way to know what either pf their careers would have been like without the other

I think anyone who is fair will say that Bill Belichick the GM is just outright not any good. The coach is still awesome. Divorcing the two will not happen as long as he is with the Patriots and so BB the GM will continue on making BB the coach's legacy look worse and worse. It would also help if people hired from New England were actually good effective coaches, and if you hadnt had multiple clown situations that resulted from hiring BB assistants to be HCs.

All this hate is undeserved for sure. I think once his time here is over people are gonna cry and sing him all the praise he deserves.

Honestly it’s just fun to beat up on him

Best ever defensive coach. Nowhere near the best head coach without the GOAT QB.

Seriously. We're talking about a team that hasn't had a top ten draft pick since 2008. Didn't have a first round pick at all for a lot of those years. That's not just Brady. That's a coach that can get the best out of his players on the field and on the market.

Actually it hasn't gone far enough. Bill needs to retire. It was Brady all along. The last 4 years proved that to everybody except people living in denial.