NFL

Not fat enough.

Belichick was a fucking dumbass when he was the Browns' HC. He'd be down by a field goal against the Steelers and call a hail mary on third and 2.

The argument that he was never a good coach is ridiculous. That type of sustained success with so many players besides Brady coming in and out is no fluke.

Now there is an argument to be made that he's no longer a good coach, or that he should be fired, but his resume speaks for itself.

I think your post belongs in r/nflcirclejerk

People are slandering BB? He was coaching the 86 and 90 Giants defense two of the best all time and that was almost 40 years ago

Revisionism is thinking he’s had one poor season in 23 years

The issue is Bill PICKED his QB. Bill Belicheck might be a good coach but goddamn does he suck as a GM

not far enough. NOT FAR ENOUGH

I would love a stat on how much of cap % pats used on defence across the years. Its easier to have elite defence when you only pay one person on the other side

I want BB to spank me silly 😜

Bill has full control, and yet the team has been on the downtrend the last 3 seasons.

At what point is it too much to keep going with the same coach?

2-7

Bill was a head coach before and after Brady. What is his record in those time-frames?

People love to make this "Tom Brady vs Bill Belichick" but in the span of time they were together, the Patriots literally were the most dominant force in football. And the second closest wasn't even close. I don't think it's fair to force you to choose one. It really was both of them.

The Patriots missed the playoffs by a total of 1.0 games from 2001 to 2019 (lost out on tie breaks in 2002 and 2008... 0.5 for each). They played in almost a full season of AFC Championship Games (13). The next QB is Joe Montana... with 7. In 2019 there was a stat that only three teams had not played in a wildcard game since 2010. It was Bucs, Browns, and Patriots. (you might want to re-read that...)

"It's just Brady" ... (close your ears, Browns fans) prior to their playoff win in 2020, the Cleveland Browns' last win was in 1994. Their coach? Bill Belichick. The opponent? The New England Patriots.

No one is close to the Patriots dominance in the era of the NFL Draft, Salary Cap, and Free Agency. While many credit Brady with the success on the field, part of the reason why he was successful was because he wasn't saddled by bad contracts and players who were passed their prime but were team legends. He might have been wrong some of the time, but no one spent the salary cap money more effectively than Bill Belichick. It's what makes the deals like Adalius Thomas stand out so much.

I think we could go on for hours (days?) highlighting stats of how insanely dominant the Patriots were for almost 2 decades. Would they have been without Tom Brady? No. Definitely not. Would they have been without Bill Belichick? I don't think so. Peyton Manning doesn't either. I also think there were other supporting cast members that were critical. I give him a shoutout literally every chance I get, but Dante Scarnecchia could (should) be in the Hall of Fame for what he did with the Patriots OL during this era. We haven't had anything close to the level of talent development on the OL since he left. I feel bad for the coaches that follow him because he set an impossible bar. Tom Brady might have had a quick release, but he had an hour to throw the ball a lot of times, too.

I could go on.

Is it time for Belichick to move on? Unfortunately, probably. I think some of his greatness has entrenched him in places where maybe he shouldn't be. He's getting older, so stretching him thin might not be the best. Nor might it be good for him to have control of the offense - something Brady hid well. He's an abysmal evaluator of offensive skill players.

I'm just worried what will happen when he moves on. I know I'll be mad watching him take a new team to the playoffs again.

Even in week one or week two, when the Pats defense was still at full strength, BB dialed up a defense that Tony Romo said he had never seen before. That to me is absolutely insane.

8 rings

Brady getting a ring instantly after leaving the Pats while Belicheck consistently does nothing tells you all you need to know

People give bill too much credit for the 2nd rams Super Bowl.

Swap Mcvay and Belichick, patriots still win probably by more.

Swap goff with Brady, patriots have no chance

I'm not a Belichick fan, but this is true.

Brady's success came with playing well with good defenses. His move to TB was gain skill WR and an elite Defense.

Idt it’s gone far enough tbh

The problem with Bill is not that Tom Brady made him great. The problem is that he is drafting and trading and acting like he still has a QB that makes 5th-7th round WRs look like 1st rounders

If you want a better laugh, there’s been hypothetical situations in the bears sub recently and Belicheck was brought up and there were multiple upvoted comments about how belichek has always been a fraud and bears would be a joke to have him as a coach. Mental illness is a real thing

Tom Brady continues to live rent free in some peoples head.

It’s okay man Bill dominated the NFL for 20+ years. People will hate him. It’s not that deep

Belichick has done nothing since the GOAT left him. Sub .500 record, no future for the team, very few cornerstones to build around (all of them on defese). He set up his QB to fail with the worst coordinators in history last year, and has draft record is as good as it's been in the last 10 years (worst in the league).

Great coach maybe the best especially on defense. But has been the worst GM in football for over 10 years now. He did this to himself by taking more and more responsibilities.

People who unironically think Brady made Bill need to go revisit that first SB run.

Brady becoming elite years later masks that from being one of the worst QB’s to ever win a ring.

sees 58 comments in 16 minutes

Grabs popcorn, sits back to watch chaos unfold

Until Belichick proves he can do something without Brady this will be the narrative. As of now, he’s a losing record head coach without Brady

“Bill wasn’t good it was the players that he brought in and coached that were good”

I swear well be getting unironic “bill didn’t score a single TD. He did nothing” takes by the offseason

I think the discussion should be if he's an elite coach or just a good coach. I refuse to believe a team can get that many rings and have anyone with any real decision making ability be a fraud. I don't like him and love to watch him lose, but he'll always be a good coach.

I think we can all agree Brady is the best qb of all time and elevated everyone around him

It's honestly getting ridiculous. Like yes BB isn't what he used to be. But that doesn't remove everything else he did. Just like Peyton Manning having a noodle arm at the end doesn't make him a bad QB overall. We won our last SB by keeping the Rams to 3 points and scoring 13. Brady didn't win that super bowl alone. And yes BB has really struggled as a GM for a while. But it wasn't all Brady during the dynasty. Welker was a top 5 WR. Gronk the GOAT TE. Wilfork being Wilfork. Dont'a Hightower sacking Matt Ryan and stopping Lynch at the goal line. Edelman being a first down machine. Our current roaster has no top end talent. At least not with Gonzales and Judon out with injuries. Add a couple of those players to this team and we at least have a fighting chance.

Too many of these fans are new and didn't live through 2 decades of their team fumbling around and getting stonewalled by the Patriots.

There's a reason 47-17 is as loved as 13 seconds is loathed around here

Agreed. How many times did us Pat's fans have to defend Brady as not a system QB who was carried by the defense? How many times did we have to have the debate that Peyton wouldn't have 10 rings if he had Bill as a coach.

Are we gonna act like the Defense wasn't the main reason we won multiple games, including both Rams SBs?

Also do people think that Brady came into the league and was immediately a HoF QB?

Belichick was the only constant throughout the dynasty. He was the one that took the chance on Brady and developed him

Bill is a terrible GM, if that loses him games then it falls on him

People just have a lot of pent up rage over the 20 years of Patriots dominance. Let them have their fun. Everyone knows Belichick is the best coach.

I remember when the narrative was that Brady wasn't the goat because Belichick was the reason for all the success with his elite defenses.

Now the narrative has swapped because Brady became more likeable to the rest of the league.

Whenever I see BB slander like he was carried by Brady I know that person knows absolutely nothing.

Don't be a prisoner of the moment. After Bill retires and some time passes all this chatter will fade. The people who matter, the people who played the game and coached the game, know that Bill is one of the best ever.

But as I said in a comment in an anti-Bill thread earlier today, isn't everyone bored of this?

The answer is BOTH. It took both the greatest coach of all time having the greatest quarterback of all time to produce the unprecedented success the Patriots had in this century.

The percentage is irrelevant. Neither would be what they eventually became without the other.

Anything other than In Bill We Trust is bandwagon bullshit as far as I’m concerned. That man gave me the best 20 years of my sports life, the least I can do is stick it out with him as he closes the lid on his career over the next few years.

He also fucked the jets harder than anyone in history which buys him all the good will I possess.

It’s not 1 poor season. It’s 4 middling-to-poor seasons since Brady retired.

Winning a ton of championships can get you a lot of slack, but how much before you decide to actual compete again with the franchise? 5 middling-to-poor seasons? 7? 10? Should we throw away an entire decade of Patriots football?

4 seasons is a long time to rebuild a team that shouldn’t have needed a lot of rebuilding outside the QB. Belichick gets double the blame because he’s both failing as the HC and the GM at the same time.

One thing that complicates this and to remember is that if your offensive is really good it makes you defense better in some cases. They get to rest longer between possessions. If you score often or have a big lead, the other teams offense needs to be more desperate, throw more, force more plays, stray from their game plan. Just a thought to add to what is a pretty complex overall analysis.

He should probably start spying on teams again so he can win some games

Every legendary coach that sticks around long enough will see the game pass them by. As a Steelers fan, I immediately think of Chuck Noll, whose 80s teams were a shadow of their 70s dominance.

I think we’re addicted to responding to bullshit, so more sports heads are shoveling it for “engagement”. Anyone acting like players and coaches don’t have a symbiotic relationship isn’t acting in good faith and should be ignored, imo.

Me when people start shitting on any Boston franchise.

Massachusetts doesn’t know how to lose. Spoiled little shits!