Watches

If I were in your shoes and you’re describing it exactly as truth then I would tell the wife about his collection but I would also find one of the watches that best explemplifiues your business partner and tuck that away for myself. Wear that as remembrance and a badge of honor. I would never sell the watch. But I also wouldn’t mention it to the wife only because she may not accept money for it, she may want it back in which you lose it. I would find ways moving forward to pay back the full value of the watch to the wife through deeds, holiday gifts, etc. so it wouldn’t be at a loss but I would want a watch to remember my friend if your relationship was a good one.

comments telling you to steal $200k worth of assets are gonna get you in big fucking trouble if it is ever discovered that you have them

Sorry for your loss. You should probably speak with a lawyer to clarify the legal and tax situation.

Ethically, if you're worried about breaking your promise or the wife being upset about him having bought expensive watches, you could sell the watches (or chip in market value yourself, if you want to keep any) and then give the money to the estate. I imagine the wife would be happy enough to hear if, for example, your friend had made about $200k of additional provision for her in case he died. I don't know what the legal implications of this would be, though

If he wanted you to keep them, you'd be in his will, or he would have clearly indicated that it was a gift to you.

If he doesn't have a will, it's not yours.

Give the collection to the rightful owner, tactfully. I'm sure she'll wonder why you had it, and it wasn't at the house. Have a respectful answer.

If you want them, offer to buy them at an appropriate time.

Right thing to do would be keep the promise to your friend imo

Keep them. Cherish them and wear them and you will always have a beautiful reminder of your good friend. Your friend would want that, instead if his wife selling them and just buying clothes/traveling. I know I would

Control and ownership are two completely different thing. OP certainly had control of the watches but control does not necessarily imply ownership. If the watches were acquired while the friend was married, they are technically jointly owned, even if the wife doesn’t know about them. And if the watches were acquired pre-marriage, ownership would mostly likely be transferred to the widow anyways. By not saying anything you are depriving the widow of making a claim to the property - property that most likely already belongs to her. There maybe some obscure rule that allows you to keep them, but making a ruling on such is the job of a probable court.

Simply put, you have both a moral and legal responsibility to turn over the watches.

Sell them and put them in a separate FD/investment account and see it grow. When the wife goes broke from all her travel, etc. hand over the money to her.

If he has kids give it to them, otherwise just keep them but if you feel really bad about it then sell and donate to a charity he liked or maybe a scholarship

Sorry for your loss! Inform is baseline, beyond that I believe providing details of estimated value is the right thing to do. If the there is a particular watch that you like or associate worth your friend, offer to buy it.

Can I get one?

I'm really sorry for your loss.

I think that, to keep yourself safe from any kind of lawsuit or legal trouble, the best option is to get the advice of a lawyer who's specialized in this area (inheritance and all of that).

So… no picture of the collection? And just curious, when did he get to enjoy wearing the watches if he lived with his wife?

You should take this question over to r/ULPT

Morally, turn them over to the correct parties

Selfishly, keep ‘em especially if no one else knows about them

Not sure how your business is structured, but with his passing, you’re likely now business partners with his widow. I could see this complicating matters and reinforcing the need to be above board with the collection, even if there wasn’t an ethical obligation to do so.

On the plus side, maybe your attorney could work out some sort of deal that considers the watch as an asset of the business as you unwind that relationship, if that is what’s going to happen.

Its not like what the wife will do is ethical anyways. Your dad entrusted you with it… just saying.

I’m sorry for your loss.

You could also ask the widow if she would sell some of these watches to you. Clearly, you will treasure them as a memoir of your late friend.

I’m sorry if this is crass but are we sure she didn’t kill him

I think your partner allowed or shared his collection with you because he knew you’d appreciate the value and sincerity

I think selling the collection is contradictory to what he wanted assuming what you’ve shared is true

He wanted someone to have and appreciate the collection

I dont know if your friends passing was planned or just sudden.

Sorry for your loss.

Most of the people here are commenting on how they are "hers", but why would you want to disclose this to a woman who obviously wouldn't even LET HER HUSBAND own the damn watches. Also, someone who can hide 200k in things like watches... i doubt she is going to sleep hungry tonight or.. ever?

Keep them, and cherish the memories. My .02

Your friends wish was that the watches don’t get sold. It sounds like her cherished them and if he was willing to trust you with them, then he cherished you as well. I would keep them as a way to remember your friend. The wife will be fine.

Almost no one here saying to keep the watches is considering what debt the friend left behind. The watches belong to the wife, no question. But how shitty would y’all be, hiding them and then watching the wife have to pay off debt associated with them. We have no clue if the friend was a good person, a good husband, super rich, or in debt. We have second hand word of mouth about the wife. OP was kind of scummy for making that promise to start with. Plus I am sure he made it just so he could wear them from time to time. Give the watches to the legal owner (the wife) and let probate handle it from there. Ask if you can keep one if you want. Be prepared to now how a new business partner who doesn’t trust you and rightfully so. You are about to be dealing with a lot of headaches and an eventual lawsuit wondering where $200k went is not one you want to add to it.

Sorry your friend passed He made you promise not to tell .so that's exactly what you should do Or take it upon yourself to sell 1 or 2 and give his wife the proceeds There's no record of him having this collection

Maybe it's just me

If you tell her. You're an idiot and breaking a promise. If you want to fuck her just say so.

Keep the watches, and pay his wife a $200k distribution from the business--say it's a distribution that was owed to him. Don't ruin his wife's memory of him by after his passing showing her he was not the man she thought he was, that just seems cruel.

The ethical thing to do would be to tell his wife, but I dont think I could break a promise I made to my best friend.

Unethically, I would keep my favorite of the watches and give her the rest.

He wanted you to have them. Keep your mouth shut.

In my opinion, you should keep and maintain the collection. There is not a single thing that keeps memory as a watch can do.

Sorry for your loss.

Since he told you not to ever tell her, even though he’s dead, you would be betraying his trust. Personally, I would go to legal aid and get specific answers to who should inherit those watches. If they tell you in your state, there’s no clear definition of that, I would hold onto them for about a year. Then see how you feel. Take it slow.

These watches are now part of your friend's estate. You do not have legal claim to them.

Unless this is a difference between her struggling and not (I'm assuming you have an idea of his income since bizness), I'd say keep them. He didn't want her to know in life, I doubt he'd want her to know in death. "here's some final resentment for your husband, go sell it"

Estate lawyer. Ignore everything else.

Sorry for your loss.

I'll go against the grain here and say that you not feel bad to respect his wishes. I think people are quick to make assumptions on behalf of the dead.

However, there is obviously nuance here. I assume they are well off, but are they? For example, if he was spending way above what he should have compared to their wealth, I feel like she deserves to know. But if they are very wealthy, I don't think you should feel bad.

But that's all it boils down to: what you feel. If you feel inclined to tell her and that it'll lighten an emotional burden for you, go ahead. But in my view you shouldn't feel bad otherwise, except of course, in context of them not having a lot. You heard the man, if the money just goes to clothes and the Bahamas...

For the legal side I know jackshit and you'd best hear with a lawyer about that.

Pick one to remember your friendship by (that you’d wear) and hand the rest to the wife?

He was your friend. Keep the watches. Take good care of them. Wear them and remember him.

Sorry for your loss.

Would you like to talk about him and what his taste in watches were?

Not an advice for obvious reasons, but all legal issues aside I feel your friend would have been happier that you kept them—a very close friend of his that he also trusts enormously, who also shared the same passion in watches. He clearly loved his watches and if I were him, I would be incredibly saddened to see the fruits of my passion just get sold off to fuel expenses. But that aside, in this case go with estate laws.

There is plenty of good advice below. But this is a watch forum, so...Tell us about the watch collection??

In your heart of hearts, I think you know what the answer is, otherwise why even ask the question...I'd return the watches and move on with a clear conscience.

You can keep the spirit of the promise and have it delivered anonymously, make up a story...unpaid storage box return to billing address, something like that, don't make it to deep, just do the right thing.

Possession is 9/10 of the law. This situation is an ethical one and up to your own conscience and ethics. Just my opinion.

Also, if you do something illegal, I highly suggest you document your actions on reddit so it can be traced for all to see.

The ethical thing to do is to do what your friend wanted. If he didn't want his wife to have it- and the fact he left it with you - should clear any guilt.

"possession is nine-tenths of the law" imo

If you came in here for an answer, it's clear: give the watches to your friend's wife. There's absolutely zero doubt about it and keeping them would be theft and a complete insult to a woman who has already lost a lot.

If you came in here for permission to keep them: don't. It's not your fucking job to police how she spends her money.

If he said you can keep them after he dies then it's fine, that's a verbal bequeath. If not, give them to his estate because they belong to the estate.

I think the other comments have established pretty clearly that they belong to your friend’s wife. One small thing from personal experience- are you sure they’re genuine? My FIL passed away, and there was a secret watch collection nobody knew about. Turned out a lot of them were replicas, although not all. It meant the financial consideration was pretty small compared to what we’d expected at first.

Don’t look it as watches. Look at it as $200k. Would he want you, or his wife to have that money?

Unless they were gifted to you, you do not have any claim over them. If she finds out you kept / sold his property you are looking at a lawsuit.