Digital Nomads

I liked Hangzhou when I lived in China for around 3 years. Traveled there quite often for work. (I had a Z visa so did not have to do visa runs.) I think the major issue for digital nomading in China is the visa question and the VPN hassle. Also everytime one returns to China, they are supposed to register with the local police station. If someone did not do this, they could be fined or deported.

Outside of politics and some other factors, I loved living in China and traveling around it.

"No politics" is like saying you'll move somewhere but won't look at the crime rates. Is it "political" if LGBT nomads look at whether the government will arrest them or not? This sounds like you're coming from a place of excessive privilege.

I have never been, but IMO you can’t just divorce politics from a discussion like this. Do you want to live in a totalitarian autocracy or not? The political environment is an important thing to consider whether you pay attention to it or not.

And to clarify, I live in Singapore which is not a full democracy. I’m okay with the heavy handed ‘benevolent dictatorship’ model. Works really well.

Hangzhou can be pretty if you're around the lake but it's kind of dusty and smoggy away from it.
Working in a hostel on a VPN is fine, you can run to starbucks if the internet isn't good enough but you will have the occasional bad day where you just can't work. I also recommend the ATour chain of hotels, they're a mid-range business chain and have excellent internet, office chairs with a sort of desk or table and in-house complimentary laundry. They're not dirt cheap but are easily affordable if you're earning a western salary.

Chinese internet can be hit and miss and VPNs get attacked constantly and blocked occasionally, they're not 100% reliable which is a problem for working. You need to keep trying different ISPs and different VPNs and sometimes you just won't succeed. This is especially true during party conferences or if federal officials are visiting your city or any other high profile event that could draw a crowd. Reality TV shows filming locally have gotten the same treatment sometimes.

You also can't ignore Chinese politics because it doesn't ignore you. Other than the above issues with internet, you might find yourself having trouble because a journalist in your home country published an article about CCP corruption or someone said something about the South China Sea or Taiwan. If you got into trouble for a minor offence at such times, it could be blown way out of proportion to punish your home government. Visas might suddenly not be renewed, it happens.

You only have rights in China until you don't, then you're fucked. This happens to a small number of people every year but for them, it's life destroying.

There are long tourist visas for some countries (USA and Canada only maybe) but everyone else is stuck at 3 months and it's a pain to get. Even the North Americans only have a 90 day stay. There's no legal way to get longer visas for others and the illegal ones have mostly been cracked down over the last few years.

Different city, but least chill environment I've ever experienced. Impossible to navigate, impossible to pay for things (no cash or credit card accepted in many places) impossible to communicate, impossible to get a good internet connection. Everywhere smelt of smoke, even mane places indoors. No thanks. I doubt Hangzhou is magically differrent.

I currently live in HZ, outside the main city to be specific, moved here after 11 years in shanghai. With my family.

We have a 4 bed apartment with a balcony in a 4 year old compound with a gym and park. It’s around 150 square meters. Costs us about 4800RMB a month We have a nanny cleaner to help our kid and keep the place tidy that’s around 7k rmb a month at the high end

Internet with VPN hasn’t been an issue, generally stable, I can have two laptops running. Disney+ without issueC no issues on zoom or google meet

HZ airport is pretty good, good connections to SEA. Overall I prefer it to shanghai, with the exception of food, which honestly I’m very disappointed with.

So I think it’s perfectly doable to DN here, assuming you can get a visa.

Never heard of it. Probably a shithole.

I lived in Hangzhou for about six months, it's nice, a manageable size, and kind of pretty. Like most Chinese cities, dust, pollution, and everything is covered with concrete, but it's relatively pretty for all that, especially around the mountain and lake.

I personally prefer the small towns north of Dali in Yunnan, or Kunming, Nanjing, Sichuan, for friendly-ish backpacker vibes.

Dali itself is cool, but more interesting are the areas around it and in the mountains.

I personally like China as a former backpacker, I loved traveling around and the rawness of some areas juxtaposed against the slapdash construction (though china goes out of its way to "develop" anything remotely marketable as a tourist destination, so all the beautiful places have scars).

Lived in HZ for a year in 2018-2019. Was enough. The police had begun a campaign that entailed going into bars and locking them down and forcing everyone to take a hair follicle test for ANY illegal substance. If a foreigner tested positive, they went straight to jail where their phone was confiscated and all contacts examined to see if the substance was of CN origin. After 2 weeks of detention and interrogation, they were taken to the airport in the clothes they were arrested in and deported. No chance to go home and get their belongings. It’s a totalitarian hellscape in that regard. There are better places. Not worth the risk.

I feel this place is quite ok, as a northern Chinese citizen, for the following reasons:

1. Not far from Shanghai. Can take a high speed train to Shanghai when social events come up or take an international flight.
2. Not far from other mega cities. Instead of Beijing or Shenzhen, Hangzhou is in the middle so flights won't take too long to get to those cities if you need to pay a visit.
3. Lower expense, especially in renting.
4. International people have an ok existence and you'll be able to find some friends if you prefer such communities.
5. The government services are efficient. Police are usually friendly, except for immigration bureau.
6. The weather is acceptable. Winter can be humid but at least there is a change in seasons.

I hate Hangzhou for the local food... I really dislike it.

Edit: the air quality is poor compared to Europe for sure..

I visited a bunch of factories in the HZ area a few years ago when I was running an e-commerce company. My impressions: incredibly smoggy on landing. Sprawling concrete mega-city that few people in the west have ever heard of. Most major websites & apps that are popular in the west are not accessible without a VPN. I found it difficult to get around and to eat. Very little English was spoken. I don’t think I saw one other foreigner there. Multiple people asked to take photos with me, as I was apparently an unusual sight to see. The cab drivers had no patience for dealing with Google translate. A few times I ended up in places outside of the city alone with no cell service. That was incredibly stressful. The food was ok (particularly dumplings), but very few options for international food, and forget about finding menus in English. The area around the lake was chill, but overall my impressions of HZ: hectic, gray, smoggy, and kinda depressing. I absolutely would not prioritize HZ as a destination for nomading.

I feel this place is quite ok, as a northern Chinese citizen, for the following reasons:

1. Not far from Shanghai. Can take a high speed train to Shanghai when social events come up or take an international flight.
2. Not far from other mega cities. Instead of Beijing or Shenzhen, Hangzhou is in the middle so flights won't take too long to get to those cities if you need to pay a visit.
3. Lower expense, especially in renting.
4. International people have an ok existence and you'll be able to find some friends if you prefer such communities.
5. The government services are efficient. Police are usually friendly, except for immigration bureau.
6. The weather is acceptable. Winter can be humid but at least there is a change in seasons.

I hate Hangzhou for the local food... I really dislike it.