this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2023
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Machine Learning

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According to one of the sources, long-time executive Mira Murati told employees on Wednesday that a letter about the AI breakthrough called Q* (pronounced Q-Star), precipitated the board's actions.

The maker of ChatGPT had made progress on Q*, which some internally believe could be a breakthrough in the startup's search for superintelligence, also known as artificial general intelligence (AGI), one of the people told Reuters. OpenAI defines AGI as AI systems that are smarter than humans.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/sam-altmans-ouster-openai-was-precipitated-by-letter-board-about-ai-breakthrough-2023-11-22/

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[–] Hackerjurassicpark@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

So he was kicked out for being the opposite of “not totally open with the board”

[–] the_warpaul@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

This is what happens when AI is smart enough to generate gossip about itself.

'hey chatgpt, generate some rumors to spin the recent unsettling news such that OpenAI is worth more after the insane public power struggle unsettles it'

[–] the320x200@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

"Q! I know you're behind this, show yourself!"

[–] we_are_mammals@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

So the implication here is that the CEO knew about the breakthrough, but hid it from the board?

MSFT did experience a 20% climb over the last month. Maybe it was due to this news leaking out?

[–] progressgang@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

OpenAI defines AGI as AI systems that are smarter than humans? So not AGI as EVERYONE else understands it.

[–] theotherquantumjim@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Which humans though? My Casio watch is smarter than some humans

[–] Tejasvi88@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

If humans can build AGI then so can an AI system smarter than humans. Therefore building an AI system smarter than humans is equivalent to building AGI.

[–] mwmercury@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (8 children)

What is happening with this sub? Where are all the good papers and real ML techinal discussions?

[–] fordat1@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Its worse than usual some of the explanations for ELI5 are stuff even the r/futurism folks that invade here would know

[–] rulerofthehell@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Dude, like 5 years ago I remember there were less than 20k people, now there are 2million+ subscribed unfortunately. Almost all subreddits with big numbers are normy hype trains :(

[–] otokkimi@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Did this turn into a default sub? I find it hard to believe over 2million people took the effort to find and subscribe.

[–] abbot-probability@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Kind of. I recently made a new account, and Reddit asks you for your interests, AI being one of the options.

[–] otokkimi@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Thanks! That helps me connect the dots. It's at least nice to know so many people express interest in ML.

[–] abbot-probability@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Yeah, although I'm sad we can't have both. I miss the place where I discovered and discussed ML research. Haven't found a good replacement yet.

[–] Limp_Tumbleweed1000@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Yea this just popped up on my feed since I been following the OAI drama. First time seeing this sub recommended

[–] PM_UR_PIZZA_JOINT@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Wow. I did not realize how fast this sub had grown. A decent amount of actual technical posts in the past too.

[–] DevSynth@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I've been spending the latter part of the year learning machine learning from scratch so as not to fit into that crowd

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[–] rom-ok@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

AI is the new crypto. So you have ML bros who are clueless mouth breathers invading all of the original subs.

[–] limpbizkit4prez@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I've been in this game for almost 12 years, I've never been more popular, but I hate that it's for this reason. I was listening to a talk the other day and the speaker really said something that resonated with me - Let's make ML uncool again. I feel like I just want to unclutter the airways

[–] rom-ok@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

This is the exact type of regarded comment that crypto trading bros bring to the discussions that I really enjoy.

[–] blackvrocky@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

i almost never comment on this sub but every time someone compares Ai to crypto i am reminded of this tweet by an OAI employee.

https://twitter.com/tszzl/status/1473156331297120256

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[–] SicilyMalta@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Turning into WallStreerBets?

[–] rafgro@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

That train departed ~3y ago and new choo-choo-chat arrived a year ago

[–] libelecsWhiteWolf@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Overtaken by the "I love science!" crowd and liberal arts "ho-hum"ers coming to scold

[–] IAmBecomeBorg@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

They’ve been replaced by uneducated Wikipedia experts.

[–] residentmouse@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (4 children)

OK, so full speculation: this project could be an impl. of Q-Learning (i.e unsupervised reinforcement learning) on an internal GPT model. This would no doubt be an agent model.

Other evidence? The * implies a graph traversal algorithm, which obviously plays a huge role in RL exploration, but also GPT models are already doing their own graph traversal via beam search to do next token prediction.

Are they perhaps hooking up an RL trained model to replace their beam search?

[–] tomvorlostriddle@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

of Q-Learning (i.e unsupervised reinforcement learning) on an internal GPT model.

Potential efficacity aside, imagine the scenario of those blabbermouths just eternally yapping among each other and that unbelievably boring wall of text should be what brings about superintelligence :)

[–] ReptileCultist@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

GPT models are already doing their own graph traversal via beam search to do next token prediction.

I don't think GPT is often used in conjunction with beam search or is it?

[–] VirtualHat@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The star in Q* traditionally refers to a policy which is optimal.

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[–] Illustrious-Pay-7516@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Can someone help me understand, what does it mean by "smarter than humans"? Do those LLM just read internet text written by humans?

[–] purplebrown_updown@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

This all screams bs.

[–] detached-admin@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

OpenAI's hallucinations are big problems.

[–] I_will_delete_myself@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Ayyayyay the source for this. The news must be desperate to cash in on the drama. You have all these anonymous people pretending they work at OAI. Last one said that they had AGI internally. They used to do this with Google with conspiracy theories that Google was locking an AGI from everyone.

Given vast computing resources, the new model was able to solve certain mathematical problems, the person said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak on behalf of the company

I would take this with a heavy grain of salt.

[–] upalse@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago
[–] ThisIsBartRick@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (4 children)

OpenAI has a history of hyping the hell out of their discoveries. Remember GPT-2 that they didn't want to release because it was too powerful but turns out it was pretty bad and they released GPT3 anyway?

[–] 99posse@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Right now, they are the absolute best, by far, so this kind of leaks are quite credible

[–] ThisIsBartRick@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

best at something that's not even close to AGI does not make them close to AGI

[–] SvenAG@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] addition@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I remember the hype around gpt-4 lol.

[–] SvenAG@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

We cannot release the model because it’s too dangerous, unless you pay for it

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[–] aussie_punmaster@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Isn’t it clear that AGI took over OpenAI and is now moving all the pieces for world domination.

[–] ryegye24@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Why are people falling for this blatant PR spin?

[–] SoCuteShibe@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Man what happened to this sub? So many replies are whacky half-baked conspiracies.

For sure, Altman created AGI behind closed doors and a secret employee organization leaked it the board who then decided to orchestrate an elaborate fake firing of Altman to gain the attention of the world in what ultimately amounts to an epic 4D-chess marketing ploy to... Sell Q* subscriptions to the masses, who will be made irrelevant by it?

Okay.

[–] fmai@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

In my opinion, some kind of AlphaZero to improve reasoning and agent performance for LLMs is kind of the obvious next step. If you throw enough engineering talent, ML research experience, and compute at the problem, I would expect an outcome that will be qualitatively different from standard Transformer-based LLMs.

[–] bacon_boat@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

"Search for superintelligence" sounds so romantic.

Like they're in the jungle looking in caves for any sign of AGI.

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[–] AdWestern1314@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I am not saying AGI is impossible but the arguments that we are close to achieving it sounds more like wishful thinking.

A couple of questions/comments I have:

  1. People assume that the development is exponential or at least linear but that is not necessarily true - it depends on what is possible to do with the resources we have and the limitations of the physical world we live in.
  2. GPT-4 has the appearance of being intelligent rather than being intelligent. How will we be able to tell the difference? What will prevent us from being fooled in a similar way with future systems?
  3. Isn’t there an issue with using benchmarks that has been around for a while to measure the performance of AI systems? Are we not, perhaps unconsciously, improving the scores on these tests rather than improving the system?
  4. Without understanding our own intelligence (or lack of), how are we going to understand AI?
  5. What is the goal with AI?
[–] Additional-Green-126@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Maybe this has something to do with it:
https://arxiv.org/abs/2102.04518

[–] lifelong_gamer@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Rumor mongering mill at full speed.

[–] phobrain@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

A* Search Without Expansions: Learning Heuristic Functions with Deep Q-Networks

Furthermore, Q* search is up to 129 times faster and generates up to 1288 times fewer nodes than A* search. Finally, although obtaining admissible heuristic functions from deep neural networks is an ongoing area of research, we prove that Q* search is guaranteed to find a shortest path given a heuristic function that neither overestimates the cost of a shortest path nor underestimates the transition cost.*

https://arxiv.org/abs/2102.04518

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