this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2023
794 points (98.2% liked)

Technology

71997 readers
4230 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related news or articles.
  3. Be excellent to each other!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
  10. Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.

Approved Bots


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Tesla may have picked an unwinnable fight with Sweden’s powerful unions — The first ever strikes and a solidarity blockade against the US carmaker could force it to rethink its entire anti-union model::The first ever strikes and a solidarity blockade against the US carmaker could force it to rethink its entire anti-union model, says journalist Martin Gelin

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] mindlight@lemm.ee 141 points 2 years ago (4 children)

For you outside Sweden: There is no such thing as minimum wage. It's perfectly legal to hire someone for 0 SEK / month.

The whole idea is that a collective agreement should be negotiated and agreed upon by the employers and employees in each business area (like telecom, healthcare, factory workers, electricians etc etc). The idea is that the employers and employees, not the politicians, knows more about what their market/business area requires and is able to deliver in the form of minimum wage, yearly salary increase, vacation and overtime (among other things) .

Here's the thing that often is different in discusions like the one about Tesla refusing to sign a collective agreement: Collective agreements only limits the minimums. So the only reason to refuse to sign is if you intend to keep some thing below the levels that are the norm in your business area.

Essentially, you're trying to get unfair competitive advantage.

[–] electrogamerman@lemmy.world 28 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I am always impressed by the European laws, they are way ahead of anything. Honestly congrats to Sweden

[–] sunbeam60@lemmy.one 56 points 2 years ago (4 children)

That’s broadly not how the labour market works in Europe - but it does in Scandinavia, where the unions “won” (and long may they reign). Almost EVERYONE is in a union, most unions have negotiated a seat on the board of the business and as a result, the union-employer relationship is SO different to elsewhere. This includes the need for state interventions like minimum wage or work time maximums (except the EU directives on work time maximums, which the Nordic countries felt very uncomfortable adopting as it felt like an unnecessary intervention).

Consequently, the unions have “grown up” and don’t reflexively reject any labour market adjustments required. They act as a mature partner, even through redundancies, working to minimise and help people move on.

Partnered with the Scandinavian “flexicurity” model, where it’s very easy to hire and very easy to fire people, but the state has strong support for unemployed people in between jobs (education, financial support), the labour market is probably the most efficient in the world.

Social democracy, yo. It works.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Usernameblankface@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Kudos to them for figuring this out. One worker might be convinced that they should only get a small amount of pay for their working hours. But gather a large group of workers in the same field of work, and the group is harder to manipulate into a low pay situation. Nice.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 140 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I think Musk is caught up so deeply in his far right delusions by now that rethinking anything is just not on the cards.

[–] nexusband@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I just hope he just crashes and takes that whole far right shit with him. Unfortunately, looking at the Netherlands, it doesn't look good.

[–] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Just because Wilders got the most votes doesn't mean he gets to form a government. Let's just hope sanity prevails.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] MiltownClowns@lemmy.world 113 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This is the guy who shit-posted so hard he had to buy Twitter. I don't think smart business is at the front of his mind.

[–] SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone 19 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

"We live in a meritocracy" btw

[–] snor10@lemm.ee 90 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Tesla is taking out wanted ads to hire scabs.

Disgusting company, adapt to our model or go home.

[–] Nollij@sopuli.xyz 28 points 2 years ago

Keep pressure on both sides- shame the people that still buy them. Make those scabs useless

[–] 0xb@lemmy.world 66 points 2 years ago (1 children)

that would be great of course but you know who's very ready to double down and lose billions instead of saying 'uhmm you know what I think I was wrong and I need to correct course'?

yeah that guy

[–] cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 59 points 2 years ago (15 children)

Scandinavia is pretty hooked on EVs. If Norway and Denmark pick up on this, it will not only harm Tesla but give the competition a really strong advantage to establish a competition that already is threatening Tesla's market shares

load more comments (15 replies)
[–] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 58 points 2 years ago (1 children)

American workers: scribbles notes furiously

[–] essteeyou@lemmy.world 99 points 2 years ago

Then throws the notes away and calls everyone commies, guaranteeing their own low wages, long hours, and unsafe work conditions.

[–] cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 51 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This is how strikes work. Not 1000 Amazon employees on black Friday.

[–] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 31 points 2 years ago

Have to build up enough momentum and regulation to overcome the very determined, active, anti-union attacks of Amazon (or Sbux, etc)

[–] RememberTheApollo@lemmy.world 34 points 2 years ago (1 children)

A US business rethink an anti-union model? Even businesses with unions would be happy to get rid of them here. They’re not going to rethink anything, they’ll expend every possible effort to avoid bending a knee to a union, especially a foreign one.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] fne8w2ah@lemmy.world 30 points 2 years ago

May the might of the Swedish unions always be in their favour.

[–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 26 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)
[–] ArcaneGadget@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

I'm honestly surprised, that there are not more Americans loudly calling the Scandinavian countries communist. Being some of the most socialist countries in the world.

[–] reagansrottencorpse@lemmy.world 24 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Meanwhile in the USA I believe the supreme Court recently ruled that unions are responsible for repaying companies for striking...

[–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago

If memory serves, I don't think there were any actual damages in this case. They left a truck with a bunch of wet concrete and told someone, and the company had to haul ass so the concrete wouldn't solidify and break the truck. They did just that. It's ridiculous to ask for damages for that.

If they had left a fire or volatile process unattended, that would be different. Or if they created a gigantic mess for their coworkers to handle. But this isn't either of those.

[–] Fades@lemmy.world 19 points 2 years ago

get fucked capitalist scum

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 18 points 2 years ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


What started as a minor local disagreement has grown to the point that it could have global implications, with potential ripple effects for labour movements and auto workers across Europe and the US.

The financial tech company Klarna recently had to give way after several years of attempting to resist collective bargaining agreements, and settled with employees in a victory for white-collar unions.

In the US, Tesla has been involved in a number of scandals over the past decade, with allegations relating to workplace safety, racial discrimination, sexual harassment, labour violations and unlawful practices to curb unionisation efforts.

When United Auto Workers organised strikes at the “big three” car companies – General Motors, Ford and Stellantis – in Michigan this summer, three-quarters of Americans said they supported it.

(Donald Trump also showed up in Michigan, but gave a speech at a non-unionised car parts maker, which was equally characteristic of his signature working-class cosplay without policy substance.)

For Musk, there are reasons to worry that his business model could be challenged, as the fight in Sweden reverberates with the strengthening power of labour organisers across American unions.


The original article contains 959 words, the summary contains 187 words. Saved 81%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world 17 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Fight on Swedish Unions! Let that Son-of-a-Musk get a black eye for trying his BS over here!

[–] badbytes@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Thank you Europe for help fix our companies.

[–] ItsMeSpez@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago

Even if Tesla capitulates here, they won't change their domestic policies. This will only benefit those who are actually willing to stand up for themselves.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 14 points 2 years ago (2 children)

That's why you don't fuck with vikings.

[–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Or just the Norse in general, reminder that it was Norsemen who guarded the Roman Emperor in Constantinople.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Viking was not a nationality, it was a job, so your point is in some ways more accurate.

[–] dellish@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

That and what we generally think of as "Vikings" were actually Danes, which is an insult to Swedes.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Melt@lemm.ee 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Despite the rightwing government currently in power in Sweden, calls to change the employment model are rare.

I thought rightwing means conservative, do they use the word to mean pro-capitalist now?

[–] Ebber@lemmings.world 18 points 2 years ago (1 children)

That is what "right wing" means in this part of the world. Liberals and conservatives usually work together when they can form the government.

[–] Natanael@slrpnk.net 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Liberals here are mostly economic liberals with little care for other freedoms

[–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Why not just shorthand it and say rich assholes. Unless someone enlightens me further, the only rich person who wasn't an asshole in terms of his moral compass and aggregate decision making is John F. Kennedy...smh

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

Kennedy did some good things, but he was a major asshole in plenty of ways. The Bay of Pigs invasion was both stupid and a disaster, he escalated things in Vietnam, he put a huge stall on civil rights while claiming to be championing it to the point that Lyndon fucking Johnson had to do something about it, and then there were those 13 days in October, 1962 where he almost helped end the world. And that all started when he decided to deploy nuclear weapons in Turkey.

So I wouldn't even include him in the 'not an asshole' category.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

"capitalists have picked an unwinnable fight with unions"

Tale as old as unions.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago

It could, but it won't.

[–] 5BC2E7@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If their values are incompatible and they are inflexible they made a mistake and should relocate.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›