Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
It's Facebook Messenger and Whatsapp for me. I ditched the Facebook app a long time ago, but Messenger and Whatsapp remain on my device because no one wants to leave them. I try to keep my chats there as superficial as possible.
Also, this is my first comment ever on Lemmy, so hi everyone!
Welcome. A reminder for in case you don't know, if it starts to feel stale, then it's probably because of your viewing settings. If you switch it from Active (ironically, the least active), to Hot, 6 hours, Scaled, etc. after you've gone through all of the new to you posts, you'll see a lot more action.
Thanks for the tip!
All your chat history has been published to the fediverse now. Welcome to Lemmy.
No one wants to leave because nobody is leaving.
You're still on WhatsApp and Messenger, they can still contact you that way, so why would they bother changing?
Pick a date, a week, a month, whatever, from now. Tell those you message regularly that you will be deleting all Meta apps on that date. Make it clear that that includes WhatsApp and Messenger. Explain why. I just linked some articles instead of having a long explanation but it still made it clear why.
Let them know they can contact you via Signal/SMS/email whatever you use after that date.
If the informed don't take the leap, the ignorant never will.
Welcome to lemmy!
Asking people to leave things means they're losing a line of communication to friends, family, and interest groups who still use those things. It's probably more productive to ask people to add the services you prefer rather than leave the ones they're used to.
I've encountered some resistance from Americans who use iPhones and hate the idea of adding a third-party messaging app. None of them seem very interested in justifying that position.
Companies like Apple spent a lot to create a switching cost in almost every product. The "bubble" color is also a HUGE thing in the US, and is often times the sole reason for not wanting to leave iMessage.
It's not the bubble color. It's what the bubble color signifies. ie: no rich communication services, no high quality video or audio calls, no stickers, no videos, low quality images, etc.
Certainly, but installing additional messaging apps on a phone has almost no cost on either iPhone or Android. It's interesting that iPhone users seem to dislike the idea more.
The having to do something is the cost, because they have a perfectly good messaging app already, "why can't you just use that?"
And that cost is more on Apple's platform because Apple has been designing it that way since the beginning. It's the whole reason android users got a different color bubble, not because they had to, but it was a way to identify the person that wasn't using an iPhone and make them stand out. Making it almost unimaginable to switch to Android for youth who care so much about not being "out" of the group.
And Google has identified this, and put a lot of cringe-worthy effort into addressing it at their Pixel event this time around.
As someone whose only apple devices are ipads, the big lockin isn't imessage vs an SMS client. It's FaceTime vs, Zoom/GMeet/Jitsi. Mind you, it is nice being able to use iMessage with my wife when I have internet, and then swap over to SMS quickly. Sure, my two devices don't have a persistent conversation, but her device does.
Networking effect
People use whatever is most popular even if its the shittest thing such as Facebook.
Only time people will care is when it personally and tangibly affects them.
For Facebook/whatsapp watomatic can be used to remind people you are leaving or such.
Discord is a hard one because it has some uniqueness to it.
It has bots, text channels, voice channels, and hundreds of thousands of people can join it if you need to.
A lot of my college clubs use it and there are a few thousand students in our biggest ones
It's because our marketing sucks. People don't care about their privacy, they like what is cool. So what does that mean? It mean we gotta make using open source app so cool that people can't help but join because all the cool kids are here. You feel me? Preaching alone is not enough although it will benefit all of us
I less have an issue with people getting trapped in software they understand is insecure, and more with people who will push shit like telegram and pretend its the most private and secure thing ever invented. If they want to use discord, sure, fine with me. As long as they know not to do their activist work on discord I'm fine with it. People doing activist work/planning over telegram will never make me not cringe.
Signal isn't something I personally want to use, but its tolerable, and it was doing a good job of replacing telegram in activist spaces I felt, but I've recently seen a few different groups using telegram again because they don't trust signal.
xmpp with omemo is what I wish I could get people to use but uh, well, that just will never happen.
People don't typically like change. It has to feel like it's their decision to drive them there.
Probably the idea of "all my other friends are on the mainstream platform so why would i move to another platform specifically for you?"
Network effect and the path of least resistance.
People usually resist change until there's a net and obvious gain, or when thing don't work as expected anymore.
And you need to consider that what's important in a messaging platform for someone, might be vastly different for another.
Not really. I have none of those apps or alternatives. and I don't know anyone I want to chat with on Discord, WhatsApp, Insta, or other. Not that I'm antisocial, I just have no interest. Lemmy is about as close as I want to get to anyone. Before, it was Reddit, but they have tanked as a place to search for knowledge.
Yeah, this is so fucking annoying. I've been banging on about Signal for years, but everyone except a small handful of my wisest friends insist upon using WhatsApp and Discord.
Almost everyone I know also uses Instagram, and no other social media. I am yet to meet someone in real life who even has Mastodon.
So just use something different yourself. Then ask your friends to communicate with you there. You don't need them to quit the old, you need to ask them to use something new.
"privacy? Yeah whatever, they just use it to catch bad people right? I have nothing to hide. I don't have the time to learn all this VPN stuff. Don't forget to like my posts!"
Comfort and scared of change. The dopamine these sites give you is close to sex for some people as weird as it sounds. So if you tell them to stop using Instagram, they can't process that and simply say no.
This is just part of human nature. Some of us are able to say "hey this website is run by horrible people and I refuse to support it." We leave and find other options and help them grow. We are in the minority.
Most people simply do not want to try something everyone else doesn't use cause they don't want to seem weird. Stupid societal norms.
I convinced my friends to get Discord so we could communicate as a community without Facebook. Now I have figured out it is just as bad. I tried Matrix and couldn't figure out how to log in before I heard it's enshittification is underway.
I have the same issue, but got 2 Discord users to try Jitsi Meet with me (a friend of mine on my Snikket server invited her friend). After a while, her friend asked me why it looked so much alike Discord and my friend agreed. I gave them a big smile and said, "because this is awesome".
Jitsi Meet + Snikket has been my saves since I deleted my Discord account during the pandemic.
Im checking out snikett🙌 thanks for the suggestion ❤️
Why is it so hard to get friends to leave
I mean the reason is usually summed up with a single word when I make the suggestion: "Why?". People don't know and/or don't care. You try and explain it and they mock you and act like you're a paranoid conspiracy theorist.
what apps do you feel most trapped in?
Geeze, you name it. Right now I need a new job, and if you're not looking on Indeed, you're severely limiting your options. You can't see anything on Indeed without creating an account and turning over ALL of your personal details, much less actually submit an application. Not to mention the site itself is just horrendous to use. If we had some sort of technological standard protocol for submitting resumes ( so you could send them the same way you send contact info via .vcf), or even OCR that actually worked, it could be a lot easier, but we don't, so the alternative is going and typing in all of your information for every individual application, which simply doesn't work when you're submitting a couple dozen every day, on top of their meaningless personality quizzes and chatting endlessly with AI bots, and aptitude tests and video response interviews and and and...
I make a good % of my money for my business using FB and IG. Not through ads but just through networking. Although I'm about to close my doors (due to unrelated market circumstances), at which point I'll delete them. But then I will mostly lose access to all of the events that are shared exclusively on these platforms. I ask them to share them elsewhere but it's more of the same, mocking and asking why.
When it comes to open source, Discord and Reddit seem to be the platforms of choice. Usually this means I simply ignore otherwise-promising projects.
Fortunately almost no one has ever asked me to use WhatsApp. Usually only international travelers. I usually just decline and/or ask them to use Signal.
SMS
Nobody wants to use a messaging app at all. At this point I'd rather be stuck on WhatsApp. But its all family. Big family and try to get them to agree on anything is like pulling teeth.
I even sent everybody a "contact card" I made with my links to signal, simplex, and even whatsapp (figuring that's the path of least resistance) saying I'd prefer to communicate on any of those apps. ZERO people changed nor did they even ask about it, options, or my reasoning.
People can’t be convinced of anything, it’s a losing battle to try. The only way to get people to change is to live a certain way and if people admire it, then they ask you about it and you share.
So for example-I’m a minimalist and I really wished my sister would declutter because her place is overcrowded. But instead of trying to convince her, I just shared what my life normally was like. Eventually she asked me for help decluttering, and she felt a lot better about what I helped with. Now we share cleaning and organization tips.
For me, I just put in my insta bio I left for Pixelfed and to come friend me there.
I’ve told my friends I’m off insta because I’d rather be on a platform where I control my feed that’s ad free. And that I rarely see my friends content on insta so it doesn’t matter that much to me to have friends on there. If they get interested, great if not, I’m still happy.
I ditched meta platforms entirely for signal in 2019, lets say I dont have many close friends anymore haha, my social life is kaput, even my work groupchat is on facebook
Discord is fairly unique, there isn't really a replacement for it that works well.
Discord for me. A bunch of my family and friends are avid gamers. Discord is the universal standard app they all use for general communication.
Not only do they use it for all their gaming related stuff, they have additional servers and channels for just chilling, chatting, off topic stuff, memes, politics, etc etc.
It's the network effect. Even if there was an open source app that perfectly replicated all the functionality of Discord and was just as simple to install and run as Discord, most of them still wouldn't switch to it, because all of their friends and family are still on Discord.
So they would have to have two completely separate apps with totally separate social groups to maintain, and nobody but hardcore advocates for FOSS and privacy are willing to do that.
Sure, I have Discord, Matrix, IRC, Signal, XMPP clients, and a Private Mumble server, all on my systems, but I'm hardcore about FOSS. None of my friends and family are willing to do that. It took all my energy to convince two of my most techie friends just to get Signal on their phones. And only One has been willing to install a Matrix client to chat just with me.
Because people keep pushing for them to completely leave a platform.
Instead try to get them to dual-use platforms.
It's network effects. People have other friends on the network who have their own friends on the network, and so on. Leaving the network means convincing a critical mass of your network to leave along with you.
The inconvenience of switching and learning a new thing is the largest deterrent. People complain but don't care enough due to those reasons to switch.
I only text people on Signal, except the old grandparents or potential new friends that I will in time get to switch to Signal.
Get their parents to sign up. Feels like grannies sharing minion memes and Bible verses was the end of facebook's cool era.
I don't have very many friends, although of the ones I do have the majority of them use Signal, or are terrified of recent politics and I'm trying to move them over currently. I'm not concerned about platform lock-in for communicating over proprietary platforms since if something happens we can just move, I am concerned about the security implications.
I'm still on Discord because everyone else is there. I've moved my direct social connections, so most of the things I'd use Discord dms for on a daily basis, over to dedicated direct messaging services, but communities are so much harder to move over. You can't shuffle between a hundred and a thousand people over to another platform unless somehow most of the groups they're in move over at once.
And to what? Matrix communities are not as convenient, Revolt's voice chats are not as good and screen sharing wasn't a thing at all last I checked and it doesn't have a mobile client, and TeamSpeak is primarily voice-based.
People will still use discord even if it got entirely banned, there just isn't a good alternative now that is clear
These are just opinions, but here are the two I know about (I don't use WhatsApp)
Discord: It's not just you. You would have to get their other connections, all their servers, and all the connections from those servers to switch. Frankly speaking, Revolt isn't ready for that to happen. You are one person. I'm sorry, but if I have 1 friend vs. all of my servers and friends, I'm not going to make a meaningful change for the one person. And tbh I'm more likely to be the one than the many. What I would suggest is to try and put yourself between the two services, help to build the communities you want to see, then invite people over.
Instagram: Same issue as Discord. The fediverse doesn't have the variety of content, the wide range of users, or half the stuff to engage with.
Threaten them with having to communicate with you using email - they'll install Signal 😂
Can't speak to the other apps but I have like 6 or 7 Discord servers that I'm actively involved in and a half dozen others I use sporadically. Even if I got all my friends to switch apps for our group chat I'd still need Discord for the servers I use and I'd rather not juggle two apps that are doing the same thing (actually already doing this with Discord and a text group chat and it's annoying as fuck). Also, switch to what?
For me it's Discord, I can't find a good enough self hosted alternative with all the features me and my friends want.