Amazon exec says it’s time for RTO: ‘I don’t have data to back it up, but I know it’s better’ : technology

[–] essteeyou@lemmy.world 115 points 9 months ago (1 children)

When I worked at Amazon we had data for every little decision we made. Do you want to change the color of a button? Run an A/B test and see if it improves some metric.

Want to stop supporting a 5-year-old device? Go determine the total number of impacted people and figure out some way to compensate them.

Want to get promoted? Get 5 people you worked with to answer specific questions about your work over the last year.

Want to make an entire workforce return to an office after they kept your company afloat during a pandemic? Want to increase commute time? Want to increase cars on the road? Want to make new parents spend less time with their kids? No need for any data, some guy says he knows better.

[–] dubble_deee@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago

These days all the data used to inform decisions internally feel like they're completely made up to support whatever bias the manager already has. This used to be an org dependent problem but it's everywhere now, AWS, retail, digital.

[–] Eigerloft@lemmy.world 114 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Uh oh, someone's commercial real estate investments must not be performing as well as they expected.

[–] SinningStromgald@lemmy.world 53 points 9 months ago (1 children)

None are doing well. It's the next big bubble to pop and it's going to hurt real bad. Bidens plan to convert office space to residential sounds like a savior for commercial real estate but it will take years and not everyone can be at the front of the line.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 34 points 9 months ago (9 children)

Bidens plan to convert office space to residential sounds like a savior for commercial real estate

For the owners....

He's giving them millions (I think actually billions) for them to make those office spaces trendy expensive condos most people won't be able to afford.

Rather than telling the disgustingly wealthy people that own those offices to pay for it themselves while prioritizing affordable housing for people who need it.

[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 18 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Trendy, expensive, poorly insulated, poorly suited, overly priced condos.

You can't easily convert open plan office space into suitable residential housing.

[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago

I'd much prefer a solution that benefits lower and middle income people, but this proposal is a pragmatic one.

He’s giving them millions (I think actually billions) for them to make those office spaces trendy expensive condos most people won’t be able to afford.

That will certainly be some, but I doubt even a majority of the final residence of these converted buildings. First, there just aren't that many rich people that will buy a multi-million dollar converted office building residences. When the market for the rich is exahusted, there's likely still plenty of converted buildings which means the price per unit declines to more reasonable (not cheap, admittedly) housing costs. This has a knock on effect with the entire residential real estate market. Existing housing will get cheaper everywhere just because the larger supply of housing inventory appearing essentially out of nowhere (because offices took this land off the residential market decades ago).

Further, people want amenities around their residence. Things like grocery stores, restaurants, dentists, etc. With enough people (of any income level) these services will start to appear. So lots of jobs, and if housing in this area for workers, then the salaries of these workers will have to be raised significantly higher to get staff.

So with one macro decision, lots of this can occur.

Rather than telling the disgustingly wealthy people that own those offices to pay for it themselves while prioritizing affordable housing for people who need it.

The large majority of office owners won't make this conversion on their own right now. So what you're advocating for is for all those buildings to sit empty for possibly decades. So do you want that housing to exist now or 20-30 years from now when each developer slowly makes that choice. This is the ugly, but pragmatic, reality about getting change in our society.

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[–] NounsAndWords@lemmy.world 90 points 9 months ago (2 children)

But I know it's better

Better for whom?

[–] BaronVonBort@lemmy.world 64 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Micromanagers and building owners

[–] nicetriangle@kbin.social 37 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Yep all those countless hours of travel, gallons of gas, car repairs, transit fares, etc we’ve been covering out of pocket our whole working lives has been a free subsidy to commercial real estate companies.

[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 13 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

It really is absurd.

I'm returning to the job market, and I'm honestly thinking of getting a shitty job within cycling distance, rather than be forced into commuting again.

I honestly don't know how much more they'd have to offer me, just to force me back in my car. It certainly won't be nothing or vague promises.

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[–] roofuskit@lemmy.world 27 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Board rooms full of people heavily invested in commercial real estate.

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[–] sonals@lemmy.world 89 points 9 months ago (5 children)

Hey, I worked for this moron and left because of these moronic statements.

Absolutely mind boggling that this company is “run on data” yet there’s no data besides anecdotes to support this backwards idea.

To make it even funnier, here’s an Amazon Director apologizing on LinkedIn because they thought forcing people to come into an office was the right thing to do.

[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 71 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Compromise is the moment a group has given up on finding the best solution

What a toxic and zero-sum viewpoint. What a stark admission that someone is unable to be willing to consider the possibility that someone else might be right, or at least partially right. If this philosophy was prevalent at Microsoft in 2010+, it would explain a number of Microsoft corporate decisions. Putting a smartphone touchscreen UI on a computer server product (Windows 2012) being just one obvious example.

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[–] MysticKetchup@lemmy.world 55 points 9 months ago (3 children)

If this dude "loved every minute of the 80+ hour work weeks of the early 2000's", feels like I can safely ignore anything he has to say about work

[–] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 35 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

He was in his early 20s based on his stated age, bro-ing out with beers and code, likely making gobs of startup money when you could still reasonably buy a house, which is likely worth 10x what it was then.

Now he makes 700k or more, living in his basically free house, and needs to put on a show for current 20 somethings like that is something good that can still happen to them.

[–] RubberElectrons@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago

Word. But people change.

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[–] afk_strats@lemmy.world 32 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Working from home also had, from my observation, a massive and materially beneficial impact on females specifically working mothers, who bare a disproportionate share of domestic work.

Ew

[–] Cylusthevirus@kbin.social 21 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Every single time some dude writes "females" I see this.

[–] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 17 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

What I don't get, is that, female clearly applies to any living species right?

Women refers to female humans.

It's so easy to say "women" because you are talking about people. The word "female" has no such implication.

I truly think the repetitive and serious use of "females" instead of women is actually an attempt at degrading the status of women in society.

But not like "oh its already bad" but more intentional now. It worries me, because there are a lot of political persons using the language too.

[–] Aviandelight@mander.xyz 11 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Saying "females" is just one step above saying "bitches." That's how it hits my ear at any rate.

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[–] Iwasondigg@lemmy.one 86 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Over the last 15 years these tech leaders have led the charge to offshoring. Now they're telling us we have to work with people on the other side of the world - unless we're in the same timezone. Then we have to be "together" but separated into cubicles. Their logic makes no sense.

[–] GreenEnigma@lemmy.world 40 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It’s because their logic isn’t about what they claim it’s about.

It’s about control.

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[–] RecallMadness@lemmy.nz 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You guys are getting cubicles? Living the dream.

[–] Iwasondigg@lemmy.one 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I hear to really boost morale, we might get to wear jeans on Fridays. I mean, working from home is great, but have you ever gone into the office in non-business casual clothes?

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[–] GuyWithLag@lemmy.world 79 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Amazon is extremely data-centric at that management level. If he's not showing hard data, then the data he has go against the narrative he's pushing.

[–] Basil@lemmings.world 14 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Which is confusing to me, obviously working from home tends to be more productive, and I'm sure they've seen that, so why RTO?

[–] Phoonzang@lemmy.world 36 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Because WFH has shown that large parts of middle management are useless, and those MM people are pushing upper management for RTO before it becomes evident. It's what MM has always done, suck up to UM and kick down on the workers, without real benefit to the company.

[–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 12 points 9 months ago

Not only MM, I think a lot of these execs would be shown as useless as well

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[–] afk_strats@lemmy.world 72 points 9 months ago (2 children)

This is extremely typical for Amazon corporate.

They have the data because they ask (corporate) employees about their working experience constantly. I'm sure employees love the option to WFH. But they don't like the data (typical) because they spent billions building cheap, crowded, loud office space around the world.

So what do they do? They pull out the mantra, "Disagree and Commit", which is Amazon manager speak for "shut up and do what I say." Ironically, Disagree and Commit is actually "Have Backbone, Disagree and Commit" and is about finding alternative solutions or data when you think the company is doing the wrong things rather than keeping quiet.

Amazon, like most American corporations is an oligarchy and it's run terribly at the top with dire consequences for their employees, customers, and the world.

[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 25 points 9 months ago (7 children)

cheap, crowded, loud office space

Just reading these words hurts. I’ll never forget visiting Fitbit’s offices. They had these extra narrow desks - imagine a regular office desk but without the extra width for that rolly-drawer. They were strung out in long rows, smack up against each other side to side. And the rows were also arranged back to back. When everyone was sitting down, the legs of their chairs would interfere, and they had nowhere to put their backpacks except down in that mess of chair legs. The place was a constant high volume din, and if it wasn’t you’d be listening to the people in either side of you breathing. Need to get up and leave? Prepare to tiptoe through that entire mess for 10-20 desks until you reach an aisle.

[–] afk_strats@lemmy.world 25 points 9 months ago (2 children)

that sounds like a fire hazard
flu season was probably a nightmare
fuck that

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 9 points 9 months ago

Are there stats on how many more sick days people in the office take? I don't really catch anything except from the kids, and I'm almost never sick enough to not at least send a couple emails.

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[–] Kraven_the_Hunter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 45 points 9 months ago

'I don't have data to back it up, but I know it's better'

This is exactly the reason why every single one of Amazon's products are shittier today than they were yesterday.

[–] CaptPretentious@lemmy.world 43 points 9 months ago

You know what time it is... For Amazon to actually pay taxes.

[–] xantoxis@lemmy.world 41 points 9 months ago

It's time to flay the skin from Amazon executives. I don't have the data to back it up, but I know it's better.

[–] jj122@lemmings.world 38 points 9 months ago

Bro, trust me bro - dumb AF execs.

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 38 points 9 months ago

Just a reminder that if you commute by car it's probably the most dangerous thing you do every day. This guy is literally saying "I have no data but I want you to risk your lives and waste your money twice a day."

[+] starbreaker@kbin.social 28 points 9 months ago

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[–] foggy@lemmy.world 21 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Go chat with Google Bard about work from home vs return to office. Bard is not a fan of WFH. Strange!

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[–] vanveen@lemmy.world 20 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I read a lot of comments of angry, rightfully angry, people toward Amazon and its exploitative work policy. I do not buy from Amazon since 2012; I've thrown away my Kindle and told myself F**k that predator. (You cannot hire workforce that has to live with food stamps because your wage isn't enough, I mean, how corrupt one must be to do something like that?)

I wonder how many of you are actually boycotting Amazon? Out of curiosity. I'm Italian and I am petrified that here is imported the Amazon model. And I'll fight with all the energy to stop this Hun who, btw, does not pay taxes. It's immoral and it's unexplainable how his business can be legal.

[–] slumberlust@lemmy.world 14 points 9 months ago

I'm doing the same, but must admit it feels fruitless sometimes. 99% of people will just lap up whatever shit is fed to them and ask for seconds.

Amazon has a serious customer trust issue. Their reviews are fake, their prices aren't competitive, their shipping promise is routinely broken, and you will likely receive a counterfeit product.

Do not order tech products from Amazon. Co-inventory means you will get whatever item the picker picks, not the store you order from.

[–] MacNCheezus@lemmy.today 17 points 9 months ago

“Source: trust me, bro.”

[–] IphtashuFitz@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago

My employer decided to close one of our biggest offices right when the pandemic hit, having everybody work from home. This office housed probably 75% of our engineering staff (software developers, QA, IT, etc). Our CEO made it clear that the plan was to be able to hire the best people from the tech sector that we could find, no matter where in the world they were located, and not have them feel left out by being the only remote employees.

The team that I’m on was all local prior to that decision. It now spans every US timezone and two other countries, and we are very good at what we do. I do miss seeing coworkers in person from time to time, but my employer provides us with all the tools we need to remain productive, including being very flexible about work hours, time off, etc. The company also encourages occasional social get-togethers for employees in the same geographic areas.

I personally haven’t set foot in an office since 2019. The company does now encourage people who are within an hour drive of an office to come in a couple times a month. The closest office to me is 2+ hours away.

I really wish executives like this dolt would actually do some real research on this subject and not just rely on gut feelings. Yeah, I know this wouldn’t work for every company, but ours can’t be the only one that’s quietly succeeding at it.

[–] Introversion@kbin.social 12 points 9 months ago

Umm, no?

[–] eoddc5@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

Why are we linking articles from August 2023 like it’s new news?

[–] cabron_offsets@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago

Get fukt

[–] Snapz@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago

Go watch "dope sick". This piece of shit has full sackler energy.

[–] ohlaph@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago

Maybe, just maybe, we should all just stop showing up.

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