this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2023

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23andMe Terms of Service Update | Hacker News (news.ycombinator.com)

submitted 11 months ago by gedaliyah@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

15 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Following a major security breach that saw millions of users' genetic information compromised, 23andMe has updated its terms of service to make it harder to sue. Users have been receiving emails forcing them to opt out of new arbitration rules:

Please notify us within 30 days of receiving this email if you do not agree to the terms, in which case you will remain subject to the current Terms of Service. If you do not notify us within 30 days, you will be deemed to have agreed to the new terms.

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[–] aelwero@lemmy.world 41 points 11 months ago (2 children)

We need laws addressing shit like "if you don't say no in 30 days, we'll take it as a yes"...

If you can get convicted of rape for assuming silence to be consent, then why the fuck does shit like this pass muster?

[–] DarkMessiah@lemmy.world 17 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Rapists generally don’t have millions of dollars to buy politicians with.

[–] aelwero@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Not wrong, but it's a shitty answer. Not shitty on your part, you're just calling it what it is, no problem with that at all, but that's bullshit...

[+] gian@lemmy.grys.it -12 points 11 months ago (2 children)

We need laws addressing shit like “if you don’t say no in 30 days, we’ll take it as a yes”…

If someone do not answer, then what ? Like it could be wrong to assume a "yes" it could be wrong to assume a "no". The assumption is that those that had something against, which they hope will be the minority, will answer while the others don't care.

[–] aelwero@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Then they are still subject to the terms they actively agreed to... It's not like there's no agreement if you don't get a reply... There was an agreement before you asked for new terms, there's an agreement still.

[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 1 points 11 months ago

Then they are still subject to the terms they actively agreed to… It’s not like there’s no agreement if you don’t get a reply… There was an agreement before you asked for new terms, there’s an agreement still.

True, but somehow you need a way to know who accept the new terms and who don't. And you need to know the point in time from which you can start to enforce the new terms. As @bob_lemon said, it could be that the default is a "no" but you need to give a time limit.
Where I live the concept of "silent consent" is used in many other occasions and does not seems to be a problem.

[–] bob_lemon@feddit.de 13 points 11 months ago (2 children)

The default is very obviously "no".

If someone does not agree to the new terms, they did not agree to the new terms.

I can't send you a new set of terms for reading my comments and just assume you forfeit your firstborn child to me if you don't answer within 10 minutes.

[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 1 points 11 months ago

The default is very obviously “no”.

Fine by me, I am not arguing that the default must be "yes", but that you need a default.

If someone does not agree to the new terms, they did not agree to the new terms.

True. Problem is that from a company point of view, it is better to handle the (supposed) few exceptions that the (supposed) overwhelming normality, that why this questions are posed this way: you simply pose the question in a way that you minimize your work.

I can’t send you a new set of terms for reading my comments and just assume you forfeit your firstborn child to me if you don’t answer within 10 minutes.

A little excessive as example, but on the other hand I can argue that if you not put a time limit on these type of changes or decisions, I can simply say today that your 10 years old wedding is invalid because I have some reason to challenge your 10 years old marriage publications. (To explain, in Italy if you want to marry you need to put an announce, usually for a couple of weeks, on a public space, normally the town hall building, to let people who has some valid reasons to challenge it)

Also, normally in Italy a change in the agreed terms has only two options: you accept the new terms (even by silent consent) or the agreement is no more valid and it is dissolved without any penalties if present, so what 23andMe is trying to do is formally correct. But a big dick move.

[–] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago

I'm guessing there's some kind of terminology in the original agreement that says something like we reserve the right to change this agreement at any time and you agree to be notified of any changes by the email address on your file.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer

[–] athos77@kbin.social 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So, question: they're obviously doing this to try to avoid being sued for the data breach. But they ToS aren't retroactive, right? So someone could agree to arbitration but still sue them?

[–] systemglitch@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

That's my understanding, but people are ignorant and will comply more often than not.

[–] em2@lemmy.ml 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Heads up that it's not the correct email they link when you email them to not agree to their new TOS.

Source thread: https://lemmy.world/post/9207489

[–] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Wow, this just gets sketchier and sketchier. Thanks for sharing!