this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2023
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[–] 0110010001100010@lemmy.world 63 points 9 months ago (4 children)

I remember when we bought a house 8 years ago (seems like a lifetime now) talking to the mortgage broker and he basically said they straight-up ignore medical debt because everyone has it and nobody would ever get a loan if it was considered. It's utterly insane to me how the wealthiest nation in the world can't keep its citizens healthy and out of debt.

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 38 points 9 months ago

They can, but the current system is far more profitable.

[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 16 points 9 months ago (3 children)

the wealthiest nation in the world can't keep its citizens healthy and out of debt.

But it can. The wealthiest nation in the world per capita is Luxembourg; then Switzerland. I think Norway finishes the top three. Excellent medical systems.

CUBA's consolidated single-payer healthcare system beats the US's #30 rank. And does it far, far cheaper. https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

As Jeff Daniels says in the first act of the first episode of Newsroom, " Yosemite?"

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[–] SeaJ@lemm.ee 11 points 9 months ago

That's lucky of you. Many do take it into account.

What's nuts is that the majority of people declaring bankruptcy because of medical debt have insurance.

[–] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

The credit agencies do this, too. Medical debt is either not counted against your credit score or is weighted so little it won't affect much.

It makes perfect sense, because it's not an accurate depiction of your credit seeking habits. It is debt that you did not choose to take on.

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[–] crsu@lemmy.world 44 points 9 months ago (3 children)

The US healthcare system is a for profit death cult ran by racketeers

[–] skuzz@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

~~The US healthcare system~~ America is a for profit death cult ran by racketeers

FTFY

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[–] Jaderick@lemmy.world 41 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

It always has. IIRC the biggest reason for bankruptcy in the US has been medical bills, for a while. Our greed driven system is garbage.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 35 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Michael Moore made a whole damn documentary about it in 2007, 16 fucking years ago.

Nothing has changed.

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 39 points 9 months ago (9 children)

They eliminated pre-existing conditions and maximum lifetime payments for health insurance, so that's not nothing.

But they failed to pass a public option which means health insurance companies have a captive audience for their rent-seeking.

And the Democrats still just talk about getting people affordable "coverage" and not affordable "care."

And hospitals are still understaffed and mental health care has six month waiting lists.

[–] tmyakal@lemm.ee 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Where I live, all care has a six month wait list. I started a new job with new insurance back in April, still haven't been able to get in anywhere to see a new PCP. My dentist canceled an appointment on me last week and rescheduled it for February.

People say socialized medicine leads to long wait times to see doctors. Well, I'm not seeing them now anyway, so at least it's less or of my pocket.

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[–] shikitohno@kbin.social 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Mental health care is also often just excluded from coverage. My current job is the first time in my life I've had insurance that would cover therapy rather than be like "Look, we gave you one 60 minute session with our free crisis line, what more do you want? If you really need it, it's only $450 a session if it's that important."

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I had to call thirteen different therapy offices before I found one that could take me before summer.

Of course, my health insurance website showed them all as "Accepting New Patients"

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[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

And the Democrats still just talk about getting people affordable "coverage" and not affordable "care."

You want to review how the Republicans actually convinced people, especially in the poorest regions who'd benefit the most from a system of improved coverage and reduced cost, that it was a bad thing.

Democrats can't shoot for affordable care; they're trying to get coverage in the door, at least.

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[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 10 points 9 months ago

Not just the biggest, the biggest by far. Two thirds of bankruptcies are due to medical debt.

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[–] WashedOver@lemmy.ca 35 points 9 months ago (6 children)

At times I wonder if medically assisted suicides are frowned upon due to not being able to further drain the money out of patients and their extended credit lines.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 9 months ago (3 children)

They're also frowned upon because it's pretty cruel to tell someone "well, you could just die" because they can't afford medical treatments or a place to live.

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[–] CADmonkey@lemmy.world 26 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Stop paying medical bills. A debt strike would be easier than a general strike.

[–] SeaJ@lemm.ee 14 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Well part of it 8s not going to hurt your credit score anymore:

https://www.cnbc.com/select/medical-debt-credit-report/

Any bills under $500 in collections won't be going against your score. Debts larger than that in collections have to be there for at least a year to be on your credit score and disappear once they are paid.

We could fix all this shit by having the cheaper Medicare for All solution.

[–] FReddit@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Aetna pulled out of my county for five months. I ended up in a ICU for three days, which is about a $50,000 bill.

So now I'm on the hook for an $8,000 out of network deductible.

Fuck U.S. health insurance.

[–] SeaJ@lemm.ee 8 points 9 months ago (4 children)

My wife had to go to the ER a few years ago. The hospital we thought we were going to was in network. Unfortunately the ER is a separate entity that was not in network. That was a nice $1000 bill.

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[–] Limit@lemm.ee 8 points 9 months ago

$500 is nothing. My son fell and hit his head and had a small seizure from the fall.. took him to the ER, ct scan, medical exam, anti nausea medication, costed $750 out if pocket AFTER insurance. It was like a $3k medical bill before insurance. For like 2 hours at the ER and a scan... it's ridiculous.

[–] FlavoredButtHair@lemmy.world 26 points 9 months ago (3 children)

It amazes me how people went to work sick as if it was normal. Of courses some bosses were assholes and "wouldn't let you go home" or "needed you at work". Sure boss let me sneeze in my hand before I shake everybody else's hand.

Now these days woah big scary covid. If you're not feeling good please stay home. We should've been staying home like 30 yrs ago,

[–] Gargantu8@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Literally all my coworkers still come to work sick despite having sick leave. Gets everyone else sick.

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[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 24 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Yet COVID vaccinations are down...

And "essential workers" are right back to being expected to work while sick...

This is fine.

[–] Froyn@kbin.social 13 points 9 months ago

Nothing changed for "essential workers". The only reprieve they received was guaranteed time off if they contracted Covid. We still had sick people working, they were the wrong kind of sick.

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[–] nicetomeetyouIMVEGAN@lemmings.world 24 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I've been seeing this headline for more than twenty years.

[–] Sharpiemarker@feddit.de 12 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Another 20 years and people might be fed up enough to do something about it.

[–] agitatedpotato@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Mostly they just get sick and die.

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[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I see we're waiting for the "cancer patients start going into insurance companies with boomboom vests" phase of the crisis

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[–] ares35@kbin.social 23 points 9 months ago (2 children)

can't get sick if you can't afford the diagnosis.

[–] derpgon@programming.dev 7 points 9 months ago

The next obvious evolutionary step.

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[–] troglodytis@lemmy.world 16 points 9 months ago

I'm American. When I get cancer I plan to have one or two good months and kill myself.

[–] 0000011110110111i@lemm.ee 12 points 9 months ago (2 children)

We are so baffled in Europe about how a country that preaches human rights around the world revels in denying its own people one of the most fundamental human rights. Truly mind boggling.

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[–] CompostMaterial@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I view medicine in the US similar to video piracy. If you are going to make access expensive and difficult to obtain, then I have no issue with stealing it. Medical debt is handled differently than other types of debt. IANAL, but I have no qualms with running up a 700k medical debt for life saving treatment then bouncing on the bill.

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[–] brothershamus@kbin.social 11 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Ehrlichman: “Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can … the reason he can do it … I had Edgar Kaiser come in … talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because …”

President Nixon: [Unclear.]

Ehrlichman: “… the less care they give them, the more money they make.”

President Nixon: “Fine.” [Unclear.]

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Transcript_of_taped_conversation_between_President_Richard_Nixon_and_John_D._Ehrlichman_%281971%29_that_led_to_the_HMO_act_of_1973:

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[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (9 children)

Hey I just a had a thought. We should have a vote on student loan debt. If you vote against a blanket clearing of the debt you automatically go on a list of people who can't declare bankruptcy due to medical debt.

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[–] tygerprints@kbin.social 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Everyone I know has some kind of medical debt. Even my doctor said he ignores his medical bills, who doesn't. What can you do, when you need medical help and insurance won't pay for it. Personally I feel that if someone is chronically ill with a debilitating illness, the most humane thing we can do is allow them the choice of assisted suicide.

I think we should do the "Soylent Green" thing. Remember that movie? When someone is too sick, old, or just tired of life, they have the choice of going into a state-run facility where they go into a bed and slowly assisted into death - and their body is used to make more food for other people. I mean, why not - protein is protein and why not solve hunger and pain at the same time.

[–] tmyakal@lemm.ee 10 points 9 months ago (8 children)

Personally I feel that if someone is chronically ill with a debilitating illness, the most humane thing we can do is allow them the choice of assisted suicide.

I think the most humane thing to do would be to treat them with the best care we as a society can provide without forcing them into massive debt.

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[–] IHeartBadCode@kbin.social 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

where they go into a bed and slowly assisted into death

Nah. I'll take quick and painless. Which also gets into that protein thing. Even today, in a round about way, we all end up eventually as someone else's food. So may as well take a few middlemen out of the equation and just puree people into McChicken filler.

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[–] DieguiTux8623@feddit.it 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 7 points 9 months ago

Clearly these people have not seen The Statistics™

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