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It is not as stable as most currencies and market etfs (I can't remember the right term, but stuff like VOO) generally have more reliable and higher returns than gold (ie XAU) over the long run
VOO started about 15 years ago. Over it's life:
This is not specific investing advice for anyone here. I cannot offer that without knowing your specific situation and I charge for that, and once I give the advice you've paid for you'll think I overcharged because it's really simple (but reliable).
When the world collapses, nobody's going to care about gold.
Stock up on bottlecaps instead.
As a person who has an abnormal number of bottlecaps for hobby reasons, thank you for making me feel rich! Also, why would anyone else want these?
I think they're referencing the game Fallout where bottlecaps are used as currency
It's almost certainly a joke but bottlecaps in a post civilization society would make a pretty decent currency, more so than gold.
They're light, easy to carry, hard to reproduce and therefore scarce. They're also useless for anything else. So if you happened to have a lot of caps laying around they might find their way to becoming a currency.
Gold is heavy, requires a lot of work to make it useful as a standard, and has other practical uses. Caps are actually better.
If you invest in gold that is not physically in your posession, then yes.
If society breaks down, who is going to honor that piece of paper that claims you own gold in some banks vault? You don't even know where that gold actually is...
Complete societal collapse, hard to say what, beyond the basics, would be useful as a medium of barter.
But, in a society facing major issues, e.g., hyper inflation, or say, a US government default, yeah, gold is a pretty decent hedge bet.
The traditional safe haven has been government debt but that's been seen as an increasingly risky bet where you could lose a lot of money to inflation or worse, government default/intervention.
So, while not ideal, gold at least seems a better bet than most other "safe" places to put one's money.
Yeah, it really depends on the nature of the societal collapse.
I can imagine situations in which being able to press a gold necklace into the right palm might get you out of a tricky situation.
On the other hand it's hard to imagine a situation where a horde of gold bullion in your safe at home would be very helpful.
If you don't hold it, you don't own it.
Investing in gold someone else holds is silly. Having a few ounces stashed away is just illiquid asset that should be a hedge against inflation.
Fungible, portable, valuable. Gold isn't a scam, as far as the concept of wealth and hierarchy isn't a scam.
Fungible, portable, valuable.
It isn't fungible. Anyone who has tried to trade physical gold at anything close to the market rate can tell you that. And no retailer is taking a dribbling of yellow sand as payment.
It isn't portable. You can't produce a finite denomination of it easily or transfer it electronically or even carry it in a wallet economically.
It isn't intrinsically valuable. It produces nothing consumable in the way an oil well or corn field or machine shop can. It's a speculative asset with the potential to be turned into something more useful. But it has no practical use or purpose in a raw state.
Gold isn’t a scam, as far as the concept of wealth and hierarchy isn’t a scam.
The means by which commodified gold is packaged and sold to gullible investors is very often scammy. And the sales pitch promising future returns on investment are inevitably larded up with rosy predictions unsupported by current data.
The socialized mythology around gold (especially relative to peer commodities like copper or oil) radically inflates its sales price in bubble economies. But there's no reason you're going to see better investment performance than a purchase of real estate or commercial equity. And there's certainly no reason you would want to buy and hold gold long term if you had an opportunity to build or invest in an actual value-accruing business.
At best, a long gold play is a hedge against deflation and economic decline. At worst, its a fad that cycles in popularity relative to cryptocurrency or beanie babies.
It's... Not really a scam so much as a thing for weird cranks who think the apocalypse is coming. If you have gold then you have gold. And gold will likely hold its value for a long time because it's a rare resource. Unless we find some alchemy that turns common materials into it, it will likely stay that way. So if you buy gold at market value then you can always sell it later at market value, and that market value is almost guaranteed to be higher than when you bought it.
The people who are really into it though are the weird cranks. And I'd imagine certain stocks or even bonds are arguably better returns in the same time span.
Not to be contrarian, but please don't say gold is almost guaranteed to go up... There have been times in the 1900's where people lost in gold massively and didn't recover for decades.
It HAS been a good investment in the last while, but it may have been just luck.
Plus, at the price it's at now... I kind of fear buying it.
I looked into it as well but in the end went with a Gov Bond ETF instead.
Edit: typos, I have feet for hands
Lately the s&p etfs have been beating gold. So like, it's not a terrible investment, just there are better ones out there
please don’t say gold is almost guaranteed to go up…
I mean, in so far as inflation is almost guaranteed to occur in a productive economy, gold is almost guaranteed to go up over the long term.
A better question might be "Is an investment in gold going to outperform another asset class?"
I looked into it as well but in the end went with a Gov Bond ETF instead.
That's been the gambit with gold for a while. Point to a short term up-cycle in price and insist that's a long term ROI you can count on.
But when you look at the actual price history
there are long periods when the price is either flat or negative. Risk of holding gold relative to, say, the S&P or even basic Treasuries can get pretty high, unless you're very confident we're in one of those rare '04-'11 sustained price rises.
Even as a hedge against short term downturns, it kinda sucks. If you look at the big historical recessions - '81, '90, '01, '08, '20 - the price of gold had typically already jumped ('01 being a notable exception) and subsequent years were fairly flat. Spikes in gold prices aren't a bad prediction of future recessions, but they rarely make for good shelter on the eve of the crash.
You using XAU for gold or something else? Also have a favorite gov bond etf? I am not the best at evaluating those
I used IAU for the few instances I banked gold as a hedge. But I've never held longer than a year and it's never outperformed by overall portfolio returns.
It's just not a good long term investment.
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Yes. Tune all of that nonsense out… But don’t fret if you own a tiny bit, either.
I kind of like Warren Buffet’s ramblings on it:
Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head.
You could take all the gold that's ever been mined, and it would fill a cube 67 feet in each direction. For what that's worth at current gold prices, you could buy all -- not some -- all of the farmland in the United States. Plus, you could buy 10 Exxon Mobils, plus have $1 trillion of walking-around money. Or you could have a big cube of metal. Which would you take?
Gold has utility. Every circuit board uses gold.
Same with germanium.
And boron.
…I was gonna say I wouldn’t want a giant cube of boron. But actually, I kinda do?
If you find out where you can get a quality boron cube, would you see if they have any beryllium spheres?
only a complete bidiot or bignoramus wouldn't
I feel like you could still do very well in life if you controlled literally all the gold in the world, but also he is Warren Buffet and my current wallet is one that I found on the ground, so I am willing to defer to the experts here.
(NB, the wallet was empty, I'm no savage)
The only gold worth a damn is the stuff in your hands. Gold speculation is not a hedge against financial crises
Let's be honest though, in a complete societal collapse (not likely to ever happen) if I had sandwiches, and you had a block of gold. Your good is worthless unless someone else is willing to trade for it. You come with gold, say it's worth something, I say meh, maybe 15 pounds for one sandwich, you say no way, you grow weak through starvation I say 20 pounds, you say no way, grow weaker and I say 30 pounds, you say I only had 15, you die of starvation and I bury your currently worthless gold somewhere in case it eventually has value again.
I'm acquiring a little gold. Not a lot, but enough.
What's enough? When my family was escaping persecution, they managed to travel under the cover of night and stayed in people's barns and homes during the day. They planned and managed these arrangements via transactions using gold coins, links or pieces of jewelry, or other relatively universal valuables. They also got away a couple of times using the same goods to bribe authorities.
A small number of generations of my family dealt with being told that their money or credit was devalued due to their religion, profession, or relationship to public figures. In those instances, the family members who fled survived, and most of the ones who didn't flee died.
I don't know that I have much faith in my ability to flee anything, so I'm not investing that much time or money into acquiring gold things. Found some old watches from my grandparents/great-grandparents that claim to have gold in them. Have a couple of my own little things and jewelry I've given my wife. All just things when the time to survive arrives. Which it might not ever.
I hope this somewhat answered your question.
If there is complete societal collapse, then gold is going to be worth nothing, because you cant eat it. Bullets on the other hand you can use to take peoples food, or hunt for your own. So invest in bullets!
Now if you just expect financial collapse but not total societal then sure gold, silver, bonds are probably fine if you want "safe" stable ways to hold your investments.
In most cases, its just fear-mongering and gold has no more actual value than paper currency since they both derive their value from sentiment or perceived value. So if you show up at my house and offer me a small gold bar, you value at $10,000, and I value it at a potato, then your $10,000 is actually only worth a potato.
If they ever get around to capturing an asteroid to mine, your hoarded gold will suddenly be worthless.
People buy gold cos it just keeps going up. But here is the truth. Gold doesn't go up, the dollar goes down.
Gold is not going to save you. I'd we get to the point that gold becomes currency again, that will be the least of your worries. Those are just prepper fantasies.
If you are considering investing in gold as an asset, sure that's legit.
In the event of a collapse like you describe, I'm going to need something I can eat or wear, something tangible I can trade. If you can get enough people together that agree gold is a valuable bearer instrument then you've got a government. That's not really a collapse.
It is an ok hedge on inflation, but it is pushed a lot by scam adjacent businesses to push up consumption.
Societal collapse? No gold won't save you. Tools and how to use them will.
Maybe during hyperinflation though.
Gods not a terrible investment but it doesn't have a short term ROI just a REALLY long term one.
I hate Bitcoin but its probably a better investment (and just as useful) than gold.
I'm a fudd though and ONLY buy stable stocks that yield reliable dividends though. ETFs, S&P stuff.
I feel like silver is a more practical apocalypse metal than gold because of its anti bacterial properties. Even if you can't turn it into surgical tools you can use it to help preserve drinking water.
In case of complete societal collapse ? Yes.
But if you have to flee from your homeland, gold is a universal currency.
Almost always yes, it is a scam. Theoretically, it’s a hedge against inflation, but in practice, it’s just grifters selling it to paranoid right wingers
The thing about the value of gold in a society is that it is only valued within the society. If society collapses, there will be no group or entity that could value it. You'd need to wait until people start rebuilding. But then you'd need to be in a position to shape how currency is decided on and minted. Unless you've kept your load of gold secret, it'll be hard to convince people to adopt gold as a currency without starting on more even ground.
Ever since we found gold we have valued it. I don't understand the position of, "Oh, no one will value it!" We love the shit and it's a store of value. How much value is dependent.
It's a commodity that's widely used as a way to keep the value of a portfolio in case of inflation. Gold has a lot of utility but recently because of uncertainty about the US dollar central banks have been stocking up on gold.
Complete societal collapse is very unlikely and we have studied economics enough to the point where hyperinflation is avoidable.
For investors keeping some gold (10-20% of portfolio) can be very nice since it allows you to buy the dip and is inflation proof. On the other hand, gold can become a speculative asset so it's value can be inflated just like any other commodity. So in a way currently it's either a nice tool or a bubble (or scam as you call it).
Silver, used in solar panels, is also pretty good for same reasons.
So much FUD and complete misinformation here. Gold, first and foremost, is a store of value and a hedge against inflation. It's a terrible investment. That said, if you bought 10k worth of gold 5 years ago, you would now have 20k. Which is obviously a higher return than most savings products or some actual investments.
It's a hell of a lot safer than BTC and if society does collapse, it will absolutely retain its value.
