Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
It's going to get to the point where we'll need 3rd party open source OSes for every device in our homes.
"Your toaster is spying on you, use ToastOS instead."
Reminds me of the Cory Doctorow story Unauthorized Bread. It's as depressing as it is relevant even though it tries to shoot for hope.
I still believe this leaves a good market for a brand to just make privacy focused TVs.
If I’m buying a $1000 TV, I would pay $1100 if it means it’s just a screen and not smart.
The only obstacle is enough people wanting this.
Considers how much the average person cares
Maybe it’s a fantasy.
The problem is you can just buy the $1000 TV you actually want and a $50 Android TV box to get the best of both worlds.
Now if only there was better competition on that Steaming box front.
I have faith that soon even 'dumb' devices will ship with small multi-year battery powered cell-connected evices that cannot be disabled, and are not part of an OS.
Yeah. Looks like RootmyTV is only for older models of LG TVs and that's kind of sad.
tvs are annoying to the point people recommend never connecting them to the internet and getting a raspberry pi to use as a "smart hub" sort of thing instead.
You're not too far off: there are water kettles and rice cookers (Xiaomi) and vacuum cleaners with app support (and definitely not collecting telemetry...)
There are also refrigerators, washers, dryers and dishwashers that collect telemetry.
It can't send screen shots if it doesn't connect to the internet. I own an LG TV and it's never been connected to a network.
For those of you who need it:
Press the Settings button on your remote (the gear icon).
When the side menu pops up, select Settings.
Choose the General option.
Scroll down and select System.
5, Select Additional Settings.
Plenty of TVs are capable of radioing your neighbour's TV and piggybacking off their internet connection, so if it's not in a Faraday cage, it might be overconfident to say it's never been connected to a network.
Source on this?
I don’t know if they use it on their Fire TVs but Amazon Sidewalk, for instance, does exactly what the previous commenter described.
You're going to need to provide some evidence for such a claim. That doesn't even sound legal.
Not OP but I think this guy is remembering a scene from silicon valley, not from reality. That said it's probably not that far off. Amazon smart devices absolutely have this "feature" in production today-- and it's opt-out, not opt-in.
Thanks for that. Just another reason to be glad I've banned any Amazon devices in my house. It's already insane enough to me that people literally have to think before they speak in their own homes to avoid accidentally triggering the always-listening robo-creepy-spy in the next room.
Interesting. But my house basically is a faraday cage. I have no signal outside it from my wifi or any of the others because of the way they were constructed. I have to have wifi repeaters indoors and a mobile repeater setup to get cell coverage inside.
So I guess I'm lucky in that respect.
But all in all this is good information for people to know including me. Thanks for that.
I also have an LG TV that I do not connect to the internet. How have you solved the problem of it frequently harassing you to recalibrate the screen, and connect to the internet?
I haven't but that's probably because I don't use it to do anything that would require that. Like. Everything (switching inputs, volume etc) is handled by my receiver. The devices that are hooked up to the receiver all have their settings on device.
It may also depend on what firmware your TV came with and what model you have?
Sorry I can't be more help.
I basically just assume that anything which is closed-source, networked and has sensors of any kind is a spying device. It's easier than evaluating each one individually.
It's called Live Plus.
If you've never heard of Live Plus before, it's a feature on LG smart TVs that uses ACR (automatic content recognition) to analyze what's displayed on your screen (via The Markup). LG then uses that data to offer "personalized services," including content recommendations and advertisements.
[...]
On Samsung smart TVs, for example, you can disable targeted ads by going to Privacy Choices, selecting Terms and Conditions, and toggling off Viewing Information Services and Internet-Based Advertisement Services. On Roku TVs, ACR can be turned off by disabling Use info from TV inputs, which is tucked away in the settings menu under Smart TV Experience.
Saved you a click.
LG doesn't make disabling Live Plus too hard, though you do have to click through a few menus. If you want to turn it off, here's how:
1. Press the Settings button on your remote (the gear icon).
2. When the side menu pops up, select Settings.
3. Chose the General option.
4. Scroll down and select System.
5, Select Additional Settings.
6. Toggle Live Plus off.
In the Settings menu on its TVs, LG says, "By turning Live Plus on, you understand that the content displayed on your TV can be recognized, and that the viewing information may be used to provide you with an enhanced viewing experience and personalized services including content recommendations and advertisements."
And then fingers crossed. Since you don't know if this option is doing something at all. After all their source code is not open source.
Anyhow.. Have fun. Good luck. And it's better to fully disconnect your smart TV from the internet and wifi. And just use your own home theater computer with Linux. And don't use any of their smart features or apps.
I've decided my next TV will be a Digital Sinage Display.
I'm in the same boat... Somewhere out there, there MUST be a high quality panel with good contrast, viewing angles, and motion, WITHOUT the spyware garbage in it.
I imagine the price of such a TV would be quite high, since the manufacturer would need to make up for the revenue lost from not having spyware.
They do tend to be more expensive. But not extremely so. Maybe 20-40% more than a consumer equivalent.
Modern electronics and computers are a nightmare.
Why are people connecting their tvs to the internet at all vs using a dedicated streaming box? Are tvs now forcing you to do so on initial setup?
I haven’t bought a tv in 10+ years - want to get another but honestly feel sketched out at the prospect of doing so.
Look for "digital signage". It's a screen designed to be used for, like, menus in fast food restaurants. But watch out, though, because the Samsung one I bought recently still had an Internet connection. I've simply chosen to not connect it, but it still pesters me about it.
I don't get why people reflexively suggest streaming boxes. A standalone Roku, Onn or FireTV is gonna spy on you just as much as any of these things. Apple TV is probably the best of a bad bunch (esp. since Nvidia enshittified the Shield TV). There's options like running the Shield with an alternate launcher or putting a ROM on the Fire stick or running A Linux STB but none of those are particularly accessible to the non-tech set.
My Epson projector doesn't have a smart OS. A lot of modern cheap projectors are unfortunately broken that way.
I have an LG "Smart" TV, but because I don't use it much (view the News in the Public TV and little more) I never connected it to the WiFi, so offline this Live Plus is irrelevant for me.
Not necessarily. Manufacturers have been known to use ad-hoc networks to find a path back home.
For example your neighbour gets a smart tv and connects to the internet. Now your smart tv connected to your neighbours and phones home.
I got a nice OLED TV as my main monitor. I only connect it to the internet to run updates if I think it is necessary (there is also usually a USB option for updates too), then disconnect once that's done. Works great for sailing the seas and streaming whatever. It's unfortunate I paid for stuff that I won't use in the TV, but that's often the case with many products these days.
I don't know if it's still the case, but smart TVs were a bit cheaper than "dumb" TVs at one point, since the cost of the TV was subsidised by all the streaming platforms that paid to be included on the TV manufacturer's OS, and have a customized Netflix or Amazon logo button on the remote that opens their app.
I don't know if this is done anymore since there are hardly any dumb TVs out there being made now.
I get the feeling they have started to double/triple dip at this point, full price + sell your data + advertise.
Luckily TCL and Hisense have made the price of panels so cheap that unless you want some fancy OLED that a 300 dollar TV is more than enough for the vast majority of people.
For what we see nowadays in TV, I often thought to substitute it with a Fishtank, smarter content, HD 3D, true color and no spyware
Enough is enough. If I ever buy a TV, I will personally tear out anything even remotely resembling an antenna (including destroying PCB antennas).