this post was submitted on 31 Dec 2025
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[–] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 38 points 1 week ago (19 children)

"The work that we're doing now is allowing us to create semiconductors up to 4,000 times purer in space than we can currently make here today," says Josh Western, CEO of Space Forge.

Interesting. Having something that can only be manufactured in space would be a real motivation to getting off our asses and back up there.

[–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Hell yeah! Actual useful industrial endeavors are the way we finally get humans off the planet, this is the way to the future. Once there's a reason for industry in space, there's a reason for support industries, construction, material supply, fuel supply, maintenance, etc. With those support services comes reasons for people to start to actually live in space, where they work. And from there, we can start to spread our legs and really "move in" to solar system, and the story of the human race truly begins.

[–] Obi@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Can't wait for variable mortgage rates, but on mars.

I'm mostly joking, I think it's great if we can become space farers, just can't help but think about what we did the last time we were out colonizing..

[–] kazerniel@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

Otoh according to Iain Banks's speculation, space colonisation might be the thing that finally lets humanity toss off the chains of capitalism:

The thought processes of a tribe, a clan, a country or a nation-state are essentially two-dimensional, and the nature of their power depends on the same flatness. Territory is all-important; resources, living-space, lines of communication; all are determined by the nature of the plane (that the plane is in fact a sphere is irrelevant here); that surface, and the fact the species concerned are bound to it during their evolution, determines the mind-set of a ground-living species. The mind-set of an aquatic or avian species is, of course, rather different.

Essentially, the contention is that our currently dominant power systems cannot long survive in space; beyond a certain technological level a degree of anarchy is arguably inevitable and anyway preferable.

To survive in space, ships/habitats must be self-sufficient, or very nearly so; the hold of the state (or the corporation) over them therefore becomes tenuous if the desires of the inhabitants conflict significantly with the requirements of the controlling body. On a planet, enclaves can be surrounded, besieged, attacked; the superior forces of a state or corporation - hereafter referred to as hegemonies - will tend to prevail. In space, a break-away movement will be far more difficult to control, especially if significant parts of it are based on ships or mobile habitats. The hostile nature of the vacuum and the technological complexity of life support mechanisms will make such systems vulnerable to outright attack, but that, of course, would risk the total destruction of the ship/habitat, so denying its future economic contribution to whatever entity was attempting to control it.

Outright destruction of rebellious ships or habitats - pour encouragez les autres - of course remains an option for the controlling power, but all the usual rules of uprising realpolitik still apply, especially that concerning the peculiar dialectic of dissent which - simply stated - dictates that in all but the most dedicatedly repressive hegemonies, if in a sizable population there are one hundred rebels, all of whom are then rounded up and killed, the number of rebels present at the end of the day is not zero, and not even one hundred, but two hundred or three hundred or more; an equation based on human nature which seems often to baffle the military and political mind. Rebellion, then (once space-going and space-living become commonplace), becomes easier than it might be on the surface of a planet.

Even so, this is certainly the most vulnerable point in the time-line of the Culture's existence, the point at which it is easiest to argue for things turning out quite differently, as the extent and sophistication of the hegemony's control mechanisms - and its ability and will to repress - battles against the ingenuity, skill, solidarity and bravery of the rebellious ships and habitats, and indeed the assumption here is that this point has been reached before and the hegemony has won... but it is also assumed that - for the reasons given above - that point is bound to come round again, and while the forces of repression need to win every time, the progressive elements need only triumph once.

Concomitant with this is the argument that the nature of life in space - that vulnerability, as mentioned above - would mean that while ships and habitats might more easily become independent from each other and from their legally progenitative hegemonies, their crew - or inhabitants - would always be aware of their reliance on each other, and on the technology which allowed them to live in space. The theory here is that the property and social relations of long-term space-dwelling (especially over generations) would be of a fundamentally different type compared to the norm on a planet; the mutuality of dependence involved in an environment which is inherently hostile would necessitate an internal social coherence which would contrast with the external casualness typifying the relations between such ships/habitats. Succinctly; socialism within, anarchy without. This broad result is - in the long run - independent of the initial social and economic conditions which give rise to it.

[–] frongt@lemmy.zip 1 points 6 days ago

Well at least there aren't any natives we'd be oppressing this time.

[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

And how much space junk will end up there? Cleaning up afterwards costs more money and long term thinking isn't something shareholders care about over more profit today.

The tech is interesting, hopefully governments across the entire planet regulate it well enough. Although at the same time, its not like we really need to care either. In our lifetime its not like any of us are likely to be able to afford to go to space anyway, but it would probably be a good idea not to ruin it if we have a choice.

[–] Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

It shouldn't be too hard to engineer orbit decay as a feature to avoid space junk.

Consider that space junk is so sparce it's not really much if a consideration for launches. It's like the rings of Saturn: the likelihood of a collision is so remote that they didn't even consider it when we had a satellite move through it.

[–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It's like the rings of Saturn: the likelihood of a collision is so remote that they didn't even consider it when we had a satellite move through it.

I didn't realize that, what mission is this your talking about? Cassini?

[–] Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

Yes, Cassini

[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Pretty sure its the asteroid belt, not planetary rings, that you don't really need to think about when passing through.

And yeah, it shouldn't be too hard and yet look at all the junk already up there. Hopefully they can just be required to keep to very low orbits that decay rapidly.

[–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

It's my understanding that the idea of a dense asteroid belt (the kind Han Solo might try to hide in) is basically pure fiction, they don't exist. However... that is essentially exactly what some parts of a planetary ring system may look like up close. So perhaps Han could hide in a planetary ring.

[–] Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

The satellite Cassini passed through a less dense section of Saturns rings and was met only by dust particles, despite the rings being populated by objects between 10 meters and the size of mountains.

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[–] TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com 33 points 1 week ago (2 children)

i guess its time to start a space labor union

[–] SkybreakerEngineer@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago

Call it Beltalowda

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[–] echodot@feddit.uk 13 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I'm just confused about what products can be manufactured completely autonomously, in a 0G environment, and are profitable enough to make space-based manufacture economical.

[–] MangoCats@feddit.it 3 points 6 days ago

Unobtanium...

Making things that can only be made in 0G, then bringing them back to Earth to sell.

I suspect the manned ISS isn't too keen to add a continuously operating 1000C furnace component to their collection of modules.

[–] vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 6 days ago

Solar energy for computation perhaps, but cooling would be too expensive.

In an existing ecosystem of space mining and processing of all required elements, with no need to exit gravity wells, could be microchips. I don't think we are closer to that than Vinland settlers were to thirteen colonies.

[–] frongt@lemmy.zip 1 points 6 days ago

Anything, because it's a hell of a lot cheaper than launching finished products from Earth.

[–] NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

in space there are no labor laws.

True but why bother keeping a pesky human alive when you can just automate everything and keep all the money for yourself?

[–] Auth@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Pretty interesting. How come they can get 1000c in space but not on earth? Doesnt the vacuum of space make it hard to retain heat?

[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 35 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Vacuum is a perfect thermal insulator. The only real losses are radiative.

Edit: From Stefan-Boltzmann: up to (not sure about emissivities, but could be down to 10% of this) 100kW for a black body of 1m diameter at 1000C.

[–] Auth@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I'm completely unaware of the science around it all but none the less its exciting stuff, i hope to read more about it as things progress.

[–] UniversalBasicJustice@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

There are three modes of heat transfer; conduction, convection, and radiation.

Conduction happens when two bodies at different temperatures come into contact with each other. The total heat transfer depends primarily on the difference in temperature, contact surface area and time spent in contact.

Convection takes place when a fluid (I.e. a gas such as air or a liquid such as water) comes into contact with another body. Here, again, heat transfer depends on difference in temperature, contact ("wetted") surface area and time in contact which is primarily dictated by how fast the fluid is moving over the body.

On Earth we generally leverage these two modes. An example of mixing the two modes is a CPU heatsink and fan setup. The heatsink conducts heat away from the CPU and is (usually) distributed throughout several extended surfaces I.e. fins. The fins increase the surface area in contact with air, enhancing the rate of heat transfer.

Now, we can't really take advantage of those in space. The lack of an independent physical medium means the heat ultimately has no where to go; this is known as a "closed system". So if we generate or store enough heat in a body subject to the void of space without promoting radiative heat transfer, that heat will more or less stay put.

Radiative heat transfer is fucked up. Everything above absolute zero radiates heat. You mostly can't see this except for one glaringly obvious example; the Sun. Sol is so fucking hot that it heats the Earth through the vacuum of space purely via anger aka photons. And thanks to the miracle of science, you radiate anger right back at it.

Explaining radiative heat transfer further is outside the scope of this reply and will be left as an exercise to the reader.

I hope I explained this well enough for you or other readers to impart a 'basic' idea of a complex engineering discipline that I adore. I'm absolutely willing to answer any questions.

[–] Blisterexe@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Maybe a stupid question, but you'd have to have something to hold the really hot thing, right? And obviously you'd need a bunch of stuff connected to the furnace to keep it in orbit and supplied with energy. So in that case wouldn't the heat from the thing being heated spread to the rest of the satellite anyways? Like, clearly you can't just use non-conductive materials because then we'd already have that on earth.

Not stupid at all, that's an excellent question! I'm not privy to the details of this furnace satellite but I have an idea or two on how I'd approach the problem. Pure (somewhat educated) speculation ahead.

Firstly, you mentioned nonconductive materials. Insulating material isn't perfectly nonconductive but can get pretty close. I'd imagine combining insulation with the vacuum of space would limit conductive heat transfer between furnace and the other equipment.

Insulating and limiting the conductive transfer of heat doesn't eliminate it though. You'd still need an active form of transfer to shed the heat. I'd investigate the feasibility of a convective heat exchanger; use coolant to transfer heat from the furnace to a radiator.

From there I'd study how the James Webb Space Telescope maintains equilibrium. It uses a reflective shade to shield the radiator from the sun but I lack specific knowledge of the design. The temperature difference between hot side and cold side is a driving factor in heat transfer; maximizing the difference between the two leads to more efficient, effective control.

Honestly though, its been a few years since my senior heat transfer course. Radiative heat transfer in the vacuum of space is Master's if not PhD level specialization. I'm not at that level yet, so please take this answer with a large block of pink Himalayan salt.

[–] feannag@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Are you sure it's engineering you adore. Left as an exercise for the reader? That's physicist speak.

Hah! My adoration of partial differential equations is far purer than even physicists could hope to achieve.

[–] atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 week ago

Heat is so easily retained in space that when the Shuttle launched they only had 4 hours to open the cargo doors to expose the radiators or the cabin and electronics would overheat and they would have to scrub the mission. They never had to scrub for that reason though.

[–] Decq@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

The article doesn't state they can't reach that temperature down on earth, and many processes do. It's really not the jist of the article. Space manufacturing is interesting for the micro-gravity and better vacuum/less contamination. .

[–] SpiceDealer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 week ago

Well, comrades, you know what this means:

[–] HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Never trust the endeavors of the bourgeoisie.

Seems they're wanting to put the means of production somewhere where regulations and oversight are simply too impractical to do.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 5 points 1 week ago

The thing is if space-based manufacturing became the norm then it would cease to be impractical to implement regulations and oversight. The reason it's difficult to do now is because getting to spaces difficult, but for space-based manufacturing to be feasible that problem already has to be solved.

[–] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 week ago

We're on path to The Expanse timeline:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6722NAzNXck (spoiler, obviously)

spoilerBasically a station was striking and demanding better worker rights, the UN Earth Government sent a spaceship, tried to jam their surrender call, then blew up the entire station for "being hostile and refusing to surrender". They had children on the station.

[–] CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

We can finally make endo steel chasis!

Finally, like SciFi series ‘Star Trek’ & Etc.

Only problem is all the garbage already in space, damage! I assume better for the environment, even with environmental cost putting all that into space. Robots not our species working there.

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