this post was submitted on 27 Dec 2023
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Japan prepares regulation requiring Apple to allow sideloading::As the Digital Markets Act antitrust law passed in the European Union, Apple has until March 2024 to let users...

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[–] pearable@lemmy.ml 94 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Having app developers be able to avoid Apples forced 30% fee is great. The fee is pure rent seeking masquerading as curation.

[–] FlorianSimon@sh.itjust.works 41 points 10 months ago (4 children)

30% might be a bit much, but Apple and Google are offering ongoing services for the price you pay as a developer. From hosting, to payment processing and APIs you can use in your apps, I think what they're offering has some monetary value that would be acceptable if it wasn't so damn much. I don't think it's toxic rent-seeking in and of itself. What's pretty toxic is that there's no way around those fees on Apple phones and tablets.

[–] chitak166@lemmy.world 33 points 10 months ago (3 children)

The #1 thing they provide is exposure.

The vast majority of users simply won't download and install something they find on a website on their phones.

[–] aubertlone@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago

Thankfully, it seems like places like the EU and now Japan are considering ALL use cases, not just the majority of them.

[–] nutt_goblin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 10 months ago

Unless it's fortnite and has a giant marketing engine behind it

[–] otter@lemmy.ca 1 points 10 months ago

Even I don't install random apps if they aren't on the playstore or fdroid

[–] pearable@lemmy.ml 6 points 10 months ago

Agreed, If it wasn't a forced arrangement I wouldn't necessarily nave a problem with the price

[–] linuxdweeb@lemm.ee 4 points 10 months ago

I suspect you're just repeating arguments you've heard, so don't take this internet rage personally, but that is complete bullshit.

  • Hosting costs nothing. Devs will gladly foot the bill for that if given the option. Even if you distribute your apps on AWS (which is notorious for severely overcharging on egress), your expenses will be no where near 15%-30% of your revenue.

  • Payment processing is a competitive field outside the appstores. Even 15%-30% is ludicrous when "overpriced" processors like stripe charge 2%-3%

  • APIs are not something sold to developers. They build them as part of the operating system because they have to. That's how it works. They could try selling licenses, but it would result in devs not building on their fancy new features.

(you didn't mention the ones below, but people with your argument usually do, so I'm adding them for completeness)

  • Security is also bullshit. The Appstore and Play store are FILLED with malware. It is not physically possible to manually review the sheer volume of apps published to those stores. They also are not incentivized to improve the process much, because each time your kid or grandma accidentally activates a $40/week subscription, Apple/Google take a 15%-30% cut.

  • Curation/promotion is bullshit. Discoverability on these stores has always been bad, but has been particularly awful since both Apple/Google have started selling search ads in the store. The other day I almost accidentally downloaded a fake ChatGPT app because it was the first result when I searched, it had a very similar icon, "ChatGPT" in the name, 5 stars, and millions of downloads.

These stores also heavily incentivize devs to push subscriptions. I suspect (but haven't confirmed) that the Appstore and Google Play both rank subscription based apps higher than others, and subs tend to pay a lower revshare fee than other monetization types.

I could go on all day about the rotten dumpster fires that are these disgusting stores. The only people who defend them are fanboys and people who have never actually had to deal with them professionally.

[–] Phoenix3875@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

The high price is a result of monopolistic exclusivity.

[–] AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml 6 points 10 months ago

Their curation is terrible too. The app store has so much shovelware crap

[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 59 points 10 months ago

Based Japan once again. I would love to see other countries requiring this too, but I'm not going to hold my breath unfortunately.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 48 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I tried to install an old version of San Andreas recently on my phone cause the last update broke controller support (which I actually bought with money).

Apparently we don't own our Android OBB directories anymore because of "safety".

So far the "we Android users already have this"...

[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 46 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Yep, it's unfortunate that manufacturers are taking more and more control away from users. That's why open-source software like Linux is so important, you can do anything you want to with it.

[–] doctorcrimson@lemmy.world 23 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Back in the old days, Android OS used to be Open Source. You can still get firmware built up from the last release, such as CalyxOS, but in order to install it you have to buy directly from Google with the Bootloader Unlocked as a feature.

[–] Codilingus@sh.itjust.works 9 points 10 months ago (2 children)

God I miss the old days of android...the OG droid, everything was unlockable, no fuckery. Google hadn't yet slowly started adding data collection by ways of slowing moving functionality away from the core AOSP.

It still is open source, btw. But they're just intentionally choking it to death. They've recently announced they're not going to maintain the open source PHONE APP...FOR THEIR PHONES....for christ sake. They've even had a new replacement OS in the works for a couple years.

[–] DanVctr@sh.itjust.works 4 points 10 months ago

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish sadly

[–] doctorcrimson@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

The old version of Android OS is still open source, but the new versions of Android OS are NOT open source, and I think that's an important distinction to make because otherwise we might accidentally pander or market to people who put faith in that sort of thing.

[–] FMEEE@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Yeah Android is Linux. But Manufactures are limiting it so hard that it is sometimes nearly impossible to get a custom ROM on the phone.

[–] w2tpmf@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Yes. The openess of the operating system is meaningless if the phone's firmware isn't open.

[–] giggling_engine@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

It's open source so that anyone can manufacture a phone for it (good for business), not so you could install whatever you want on the hardware (bad for business)...

[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Yeah but unfortunately with Android it's what Google wants and not what the end-user wants. That's why Linux itself is very important, the user gets to decide what they want to do with it.

[–] _number8_@lemmy.world 44 points 10 months ago (5 children)

sideloading would be nice; i have no idea how people can get proper work done on an ipad as of now (especially with apple at one point acting like it was only a matter of time for them to replace laptops). everything is so overly glossy and surface level and designed for children or the elderly; you can't actually DO anything!

[–] M500@lemmy.ml 17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Even with side loading, you will still be pretty limited as the iPad is decently locked down. First of all it needs a decent window manager. That alone would go a long way.

But honestly, these things should be running full blown macOS when they are docked to a mouse and keyboard.

They had an 11” air at one point, so screen size can’t be the issue.

[–] tigerjerusalem@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This could be the real "pro" iPhone. Running m3, acting as a phone by itself and throwing a full macOS with Office and Adobe Cloud apps when docked.

[–] M500@lemmy.ml 1 points 10 months ago

Yeah! Even if not an m3, the chip in the 15 pro is good enough for most people. If you really need more power then, get an m3.

I’d love if my phone was my computer in that way.

[–] M500@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yuh-huh! Just get a terminal emulator from the App Store. I will be just a few dollars a month. Then you can ssh into a Linux server you have somewhere.

See it’s an entire computer!

[–] Speculater@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] M500@lemmy.ml 15 points 10 months ago (2 children)

No you do not get it.

At Apple we make magical devices that are unlike anything done before. We have truly revolutionized computing with over priced hardware.

If you don’t have a Mac then you are not cool and not good at your job.

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[–] chitak166@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That's the point. They want people to use devices where information is given to them, but they can't interact with it or give something back.

They literally want us scrolling tiktok all day before it's time to get ready for work.

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.zip 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

That's also where the Web is now.

People are saying that Flash was bad and HTML5 with heavy JS and all the functionality of modern browsers is good.

Such people are either fine with it, or don't understand that downsides of Flash (or Java applets, or whatever else) were defined by its advantages, which were much more important.

A lot of kids or young people with no particular interest in IT\CS\engineering would use Flash for animations or little cute things which made their simple, possible back then websites more alive. (I've just looked at such one site, abandoned with some trace of a resurrection attempt in 2019, and it's gorgeous.)

You had to know less to make your own stuff in that old Web than you have to know now.

The Web is by its purpose a networked global hypertext system, a living library with common participation.

That some people want to repurpose it, think they've been successful at it, and think others will go along with their wishes, - is sad, but should have no weight.

[–] AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago

My iPad has basically become a YouTube machine. There are no useful productivity features, no file manager, and no good games coming out that aren't already on PC with mods.

Back in 2013 I loved my iPad, but now I'm thinking of just getting a surface

[–] Telodzrum@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

I don’t take a laptop with me when I travel, because the iPad is more than enough for my work needs for a few days. Working with large spreadsheets is the only thing I absolutely need a computer for.

I have friends who are programmers and regularly work on just an iPad. As I understand it, they only need a computer for some more horsepower-hungry parts of their workflow.

The real problem with iPads is iPadOS. It’s intentionally gimped so you need a computer for some tasks. The iPad Pro has more than enough processing power and memory for full workloads (as well it should, given the price point), the OS is the restricting factor.

[–] irish_link@lemmy.world 25 points 10 months ago

Cool. This would be great. Hopefully a push to allow that in all other countries.

[–] chitak166@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago

Now that's what I'm talking about.

[–] steve_floof@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

Life finds a way

[–] Suoko@feddit.it 1 points 10 months ago

Usb-C, side loading, what's next? APK or snap packages compatibility?

[–] focalors@lemm.ee 1 points 10 months ago

Great, now force them to open up their NFC, so mobile banking apps can skip Apple Pay for their contactless payment feature

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