Michael Palin did a great documentary on North Korea that I watched some years ago. It wasn't completely without bias but I thought he did a pretty good job. He allowed the people to speak and give their own first hand opinions as actual residents of NK.

Something that stuck with me was one of his guides, a young woman, talking about how people in NK don't necessarily have the same values as people in the west. We think they're oppressed, that they want the same western style liberal democracy as us, and that they are all brainwashed so they couldn't possibly be giving their own opinions. We like to think they're wrong about everything and that we're right.

NK isn't a utopia. Nowhere is. But it's not for us to tell them what way they should live.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 19 points 2 weeks ago

People tend to have a tendency to assume that their values, needs, and desires are universal. But in reality they're a product of their material conditions. People internalize the values of their society as they grow up, and that shapes their world view and their desires. People growing up in DRPK would necessarily have different world view from people growing up in a western society as a result. For somebody who's lived their whole life in the west, DPRK would likely not be a pleasant place to live. But that says absolutely nothing about people who come from that society.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 weeks ago

Global North liberals without prejudice or chauvinism are hard to come by.

[+] kayzeekayzee@lemmy.blahaj.zone -8 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

Im getting a little tired of all the North Korea apologists recently. Hundreds of people (per year!) don't cross literal minefields to escape a country that just has "different values" from them. It's nice that the country is anti-Israel, but North Korea absolutely sucks to live in right now.

[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 22 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

People don’t flee countries they flee material conditions you idiot and those conditions in the DPRK were manufactured by imperialism.

During the Korean War, Amerikkka and it's dogs dropped over 600,000 tons of bombs and napalm killing nearly 1 in 5 of the Korean population and deliberately destroying dams, power plants, factories, hospitals, railways everything. Whole cities were erased. Survivors had to literally live in caves. But sure, tell me more about how evil and brainwashed the country is from your insulated bubble.

Then came the 70+ years of sanctions, financial blockades, trade isolation, and permanent military threats. Pure medieval siege warfare. Starve them, isolate them, threaten them nonstop then act shocked when living standards take decades to recover. Pure liberal idiocy.

So yeah when you flatten a country, kill a massive chunk of its people, cut it off from global trade, and force it to pour scarce resources into nuclear deterrence, all while surrounding it with military bases and war games, living standards don’t magically bounce back and people take measures looking for better.

Defection numbers are also hyper distorted by South Korean cash payouts, intelligence pipelines, and rewards for sensational anti-DPRK stories. Meanwhile, millions flee US-backed capitalist hellholes every year but that's just “economic migration.” Funny how that works when you’re a chauvinistic liberal trained to swallow propaganda by osmosis so long as it's about us non-whites.

And spare me the minefield theatrics. The border is militarized because the US never signed a peace treaty. The war never ended. This is what permanent imperial aggression looks like.

Maybe you should actually look into a subject before speaking arrogantly from on high and please try to stop manufacturing consent 24/7 like it’s your day job.

[–] Urist@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

To be honest I have been struggling to understand the relationship between the PRC and DPRK. I know geopolitics is difficult and that there has been a lot of mutual aid and cooperation between the two states, but I find it hard to explain stuff like this (from Wikipedia):

China condemned the 2006 North Korean nuclear test, as well as the subsequent nuclear tests in 2009, 2013, January 2016, September 2016 and 2017. China abstained during a 2017 United Nations Security Council vote about sanctions on North Korea, leading it to be approved.

[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 weeks ago

You have to look at the PRC–DPRK relationship materially, not idealistically.

Under Chairman Mao, China sent hundreds of thousands of volunteers and stopped the imperialist destruction of DPRK. The DPRK exists today because of that intervention.

Since then, China has consistently acted as North Korea’s main economic and diplomatic backstop. It provides food, fuel, trade access, and blocks the worst attempts to strangle the DPRK through institutions like the United Nations Security Council. This is the real relationship: China prevents collapse, prevents regime change, and keeps a socialist buffer state alive on its border.

So why the condemnations and partial sanctions?

Because China operates inside a global system dominated by imperialism. It can’t act like a revolutionary state in 1950 anymore, it’s managing contradictions in a hostile world order. Publicly criticizing nuclear tests is damage control. It reassures surrounding states, reduces pressure on China itself, and limits excuses for more US missiles and troop deployments in East Asia. It’s diplomacy aimed outward, not a break with the DPRK.

From a dialectical standpoint, this is China balancing opposing forces: defending North Korea’s survival while avoiding direct confrontation with the imperialist bloc before conditions are ripe. China’s priorities are straightforward and material: no war on its border, no US-aligned Korea, no refugee catastrophe, and no regional destabilization that strengthens American military encirclement.

People get confused because they treat statements as policy. But Marxism teaches us to look at practice. In practice, China has never supported regime change, never cut off the DPRK, and never abandoned it economically. Condemnations are surface phenomena. The base reality is continued protection.

This isn’t betrayal. It’s socialist realpolitik under imperialist pressure.

China plays to the Western audience to maintain stability, buy time, and avoid escalation, while quietly ensuring the DPRK survives. That dual track is exactly what you’d expect from a state navigating uneven development and hostile global power relations.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 20 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

every thread about DPRK will have at least one fash in it

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Communists have supported the DPRK since its inception, including the Black Panther Party. The DPRK is the single most misunderstood country on the planet. No, it isn't a utopia, but in many ways it has societal guarantees that lead it to have lower suicide rates than the Republic of Korea. A few hundred people per year deciding to emigrate out of a population ~26 million is practically noise.

The biggest source of issues in the DPRK are from sanctions, similar to Cuba, not due to poor economic management or a deliberate desire for misery. This is in the context of a genocidal war in the 50s resulting in 80% of their buildings being destroyed, and a loss in 20% of their population, as well as recovery from their biggest trading partner dissolving in the 90s. Today, growth is stable, trade with Russia and China is relatively high, and sound economic planning has allowed steady improvements over time. The nuclear program has been key to this, as without it the DPRK would be in a similar situation as Cuba.

I recommend you read more about the DPRK, it isn't a perfect utopia or anything but has done astoundingly well when their context is considered.

[–] pineapple@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I didn't know the black panthers were communists thanks for bringing it up, I thought they were just black rights activists. After searching it up I now realise it is shown in almost every source. I leaned about the black panthers mostly in a posative way in school (in australia), goes to show how sensored the school system is.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 weeks ago

Yep! They were Marxist-Leninists, and some members visited the PRC and DPRK to establish ties with the CPC and WPK.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Im getting a little tired of all the North Korea apologists recently.

Oh well.

North Korea absolutely sucks to live in right now.

It’s not, which is why we’re “apologizing.” It is imperial core propaganda that we’re tired of, and we don’t let it go unchallenged.

[–] ordnance_qf_17_pounder@reddthat.com 14 points 2 weeks ago

If you have an inherent bias against a country, of course you're going to side with the people who leave as opposed to the many thousands more who don't.

It goes back to the same point; you can't tell them what sucks and what doesn't. Of course it sucks if liberal democracy is the standard by which you determine good or bad. North Koreans might think western countries suck to live in because they have so much more money and still have people living on the streets and hungry kids.

[–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 weeks ago

It may seem like apologia to you, but we simply remember more than a week of US foreign policy.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 weeks ago

31 people need to fill it ASAP