Canada

Pretty damning circumstantial evidence since it is confirmed at some of the schools. I understand the sensitivity of digging up likely native grave sites, but the true extent of this should be known.

That was never my claim. So, I do not know why you bring it up.

So, you just talked right past me. So no harm done, friend. My point is that churches were burnt by idiots who say, clearly did not read that Wikipedia article or just got read lies by newspapers. Seems weird to have to say this but the burning down of buildings is not okay. Specially if people are doing it for the wrong reasons.

As far as the Wikipedia article, it would be awesome that more people actually read that. The vast majority of people have not and apparently will not. If I go by the current stand of public opinion. In a long answer to another post, I link to a NYC article that lies by omission and makes some outrageous claims, which millions of people may read and take as fact. Who then parrot it to others. Only because I am not religious, and I have no care for the Catholic church or its priests, it does not mean that I am okay with arson. Are you okay arson? I am not. High trust societies do not work well when people set fire to buildings because they are too lazy to read something as accessible as Wikipedia articles.

The fact the Liberal government does not correct the record either, does not help for misinformation to spread in order to tame the overly emotional. Cheers.

Okay, so what you are really saying is that you did NOT read the actual report? Yes or No? Did you even know it even existed? Yes or No?

I do not blame you, most people have not. An they go blindly at what the main stream media says with 0 Academic research, although people should be more objective. Example: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/07/world/canada/mass-graves-residential-schools.html

It says: "The remains of more than 1,000 people, mostly children, have been discovered on the grounds of three former residential schools in two Canadian provinces since May." The claim that they were discovered is an absolute, blatant wrong or a lie by omission or the NYT are idiots. Spots on a ground radar reading dead children do not make. Does not stop them from making the false claim which then will be parroted down stream as fact. I do not expect people --most people-- who have not read the report or kept up with the objective facts to think otherwise. Despite it being not true. So people will see what I say and think that of course, the NYTimes has to be correct, when they are, in fact, not. I have no respect for Christianity or any religion, but I can see people's pre-set dislike for Catholicism and its history of child molestation to blind them, too, from being objective. I mean, this is obvious to see to anyone that has eyes. I am not saying that there may not be graves, but that is no reason to straight up make up lies, either when there are no bodies after looking for them years based on imperfect ground radar readings.

Worth noting something that never talks about is the fact that many children just ran away and many, no number to go by, died in the process. This does not get touch as as a factor but it does get mentioned in some literature, but not like people ever bother to look anything up or do their own research, since most people are okay with being spoon fed narratives because, why not?

This one touches on the fact, there are surely dozens of others, some of which go into a tiny bit more detail, but this was the first one I found as I wrote this: https://www.canada.ca/en/parks-canada/news/2020/09/the-residential-school-system.html "Some children ran away from the schools in an effort to return home. Some died in the process." Worth noting that if even, 1% died this way, that would be 1,500+ that would simply have vanished from history. Even at %.5, that would still be 750+ kids.

This article from 2015 touches on only 12, and discusses 5: https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/truth-reconciliation-commission-final-report-escapees-1.3364325

What you are creating is a strawman. The point of the of the issue, which is if they were mass graves... well, there were NOT. The actual Report makes no such claim. The report does not indicate ANY bodies, at all, 0, zip. Anyone who has worked or knows about how ground radars works KNOWS that some blip on the scan, that is very vague cannot and should not automatically be assume to be a body. Since there are many different factors that could create such anomalies. Jumping to the priest must have just killed them or cremating them or whichever other notion cannot be assume without thinking that children running way could also be a more likely reason. Albeit if I ever come across a solid stat of that number I will update it here at some point.

Let's go through some stats, shall we, it estimated that about or at least 150,000+ children attended residential schools. Officially about 4,100 - 4,600 Died. That's about 2.95%. Horribly to say, but not high for the time period. Rate was higher in reservations. In general, child mortality in Canada between 1830, one third of all children did not make it to their 5th birthday. For the rest of the 19th century it was 1 in 4. Clearly poverty is a problem, it always has been. Poverty was higher in Reservations because well, how do they feed themselves, there are entire papers writing on the dwindling economies of Native people due to a large myriad of factors, but not like pre-colonization was an utopia of no high child mortality rates. Anyone who thinks that is living in a world of denial or Presentism, which is the notion that we should use the standards and worldviews of today to apply to what people did or thought centuries or even 70 years ago. Which I see a lot of people do regarding a lot of issues these days. Which is silly. Plus it leads me to believe that those people never really have picked up serious academic sources.

It is a know fact, also stated in the report that those schools may have had some cemeteries, and a few (2) were found at an earlier date, albeit those were found in what could be considered local cemeteries. It could not be fully determined. Your so called-logic does not and will not explain the crazy mania that followed in 2020, years after the report had been available to the public years prior. Nobody cared. And when they finally did, they let rumors and incorrect statements build on a very anti-Canadian sentiment. The term "mass graves," was incorrect and wrong for the whole time. The people that did not know anything devolved into a wave of virtue signaling and the people who knew better, said nothing. Including the Liberal Federal government, as a Liberal, that is a massive, almost extreme lack of honesty and transparency. Now, devolved to political bullshit since the Liberals will not correct their record, so it is mostly Conservative news that cover it, leaving other Lliberals under the assumption that it is a political hit job, or the like, which may be up to point. But the real fuck up here was the Liberals lying mostly by omission by not correcting the News, and under emphasizing a report that had come out around 2015 of their own accord. My guess, because they can get to virtue signal because they know most people will not seek primary sources. Because most people never do. Plus it is a complex and multifaceted issue.

Problem about this, is that people who have not read the report pretend they know better and will usually devolve the point to politics or misguided takes on history due to emotion or virtue signalling. I saw Native websites building on fake or incorrect stories on non-existent dead bodies or graves, or made up narratives based on incorrect readings, which is wrong. That is not alright with me when the facts were known so much before hand.

If people really give a shit, then we would be talking about the rampant sexual abuse that happen to Native children done by other, older native children at schools, more so than any done by the priests, but that would definitely would not fly well in our current woke culture where we don't like to look at reality if it does reflect our already existing bias of: white man bad, held by many. Especially in some University circles.

Apologies for the long post.

Violence is not the way. There are avenues that could be used. Even if difficult.

But I see your point. I totally see the Church on disagreeing on the specifics of payments. Because of course they would. However, it seems the Federal Government got utterly free from any fault, despite them being the ones to agree to the schools AND to the agreement stated below. So, according to your logic, are you going to agree that you should burn Parliament down via arson or other Federal buildings? And if so, when would you like that? So disappointed for the Liberals not doing anything about this before or so soon after taking power back in Nov. 2015.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-deal-catholic-church-fundraising-1.6557533

By Oct. 30, 2015, a final agreement was signed by the former deputy minister in what had been called Aboriginal and Northern Affairs Canada, freeing the Catholic entities of their financial obligations.

"Canada does hereby remise, release and forever discharge the Catholic entities, its directors, officers, shareholders, agents, lawyers, and employees, of and from all manners of actions, causes of action, suits, debts, dues, accounts, bonds whatsoever against the releasees," it reads.

It continues: "Canada further covenants and agrees not directly or indirectly to join, assist, aid, or act in concert in any manner whatsoever with any person or entity in making any financial claim or demand whatsoever against the releasees."