this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2024
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Opinions on the flathub metadata guidelines? (docs.flathub.org)
submitted 9 months ago by subwoofer@lemmy.gockandgum.party to c/linux@lemmy.ml
25 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

I do think that as a store it should have some guidelines on quality, but not of the application icon's styling

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[–] Chewy7324@discuss.tchncs.de 23 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Icon design and name guidelines are too strict. Many apps already on the store break them.

  • E.g. the 20 characters limit is to small for even two long words.
  • Or not allowing PascalCase, disallows many app names like LibreOffice.

And app icons have to be "In line with contemporary styles", which is currently flat and simple design. Contemporary styles change all the time. If an app wants to look old, why not let them?

https://docs.flathub.org/docs/for-app-authors/appdata-guidelines/quality-guidelines/#app-icon

Someone on the internet with their opinion on video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYqYpbMY9vE

Edit: Generally these guidelines are good and will improve the browsing experience on flathub. Hopefully they'll loosen some of those icon and naming restrictions.

[–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 2 points 9 months ago

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[–] joojmachine@lemmy.ml -2 points 9 months ago

quite rare L brodie take there

[–] conciselyverbose@kbin.social 21 points 9 months ago

It makes it clear that they're guidelines and not requirements. I'm not sure how styling is inappropriate.

[–] UnfortunateShort@lemmy.world 20 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It's a guide, it's there to guide you, not to break your knees if you don't follow it all the way

[–] ThermoToaster@exng.meme 8 points 9 months ago

Flatten your icon or they will flatten your life expectancy. /s

[–] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 16 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I like the guidelines. Honestly, I wouldn’t mind a few more. Other app stores have WAY more requirements for art assets and metadata.

The first time I made a mobile app (many years ago when I was basically an amateur), I was like, “What the hell? I have to make all these icon sizes?” But it was good for me to be forced to comply with professional standards. I don’t think Flathub should go the Apple route and require everything be just so but, as annoying as it may be at the time, it’s good practice and it’s good for the wider Linux desktop ecosystem.

[–] subwoofer@lemmy.gockandgum.party 9 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I don't exactly mind guidelines! i just really dislike the styling ones, regarding favoriting flat design

[–] joojmachine@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Favoring modern design on the icons is good. It doesn't state that it has to be flat, it just says that it should at least follow some modern design guidelines so that the app doesn't send the impression of being an older, unmaintained thing.

If I find an app in Flathub that has an icon that looks like it was made 20 years ago I'm shocked when it ends up using modern frameworks. I think Inkscape and GIMP are the only examples that comes to mind.

[–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

People erroneously conflate modern and flat. Flat is used as a bogeyman.

Plenty of old icons are flat, and modern icons are moving away from flatness. The GNOME-y icon they showcase is clearly 3D, and multiple flat ones they show they state they disapprove of - 3/4 of these are flat and disapproved of.

Saying "ideally, app icons should give the impression that the app is actively maintained, not an abandoned mid-2000s project" doesn't mean "make it flat or else"

[–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Some of the icons they say are good aren't flat though, they feature 3D shading and clearly show depth.

Take that GNOME-y looking one for example. It looks modern, but the workbench, screwdriver, spanner, and hammer all have shading and depth. They are 3D objects. The genie-lamp icon looks far flatter, and that was disapproved of.

Flat and modern aren't really the same thing. There are old flat designs, and plenty of modern icon designs are slowly becoming more 3D again.

[–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

For the most part I really like this, tbh. I see lots of bad/janky looking stuff on Flathub and it's good to have these guidelines.

Like, I look for an app, see an icon that looks like it was made on ms paint in 2002, screenshots showing not just the app but also the desktop background that looks like an old Gnome 2 desktop.

Stuff like that instantly raises alarm bells in my head and makes me think "this app isn't maintained and this store is full of junk just like the MS store"

[–] beta_tester@lemmy.ml 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children)

Your post body could've been a comment as well since it answers your header. Now everyone who answers kind of has to respond to your header and body

I agree with you. Guidelines are very good and appreciated but they shouldn't be enforced.

The following guidelines are optional, but recommended.

A screenshot shouldn't be optional.

That dark theme screenshot is bad and light theme is good is nuts because if theme is important you provide a 50/50 screenshot showing off the themes.

[–] alice_mac@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Realistically if you have light and dark you should include a screenshot of both.

[–] shertson@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

Screenshots shouldn't be optional, and if dark and light themes are provided in the app, then show both. It'll help users decide to try out the app. In my opinion, a lack luster presentation will discourage potential users.

I do lean towards the guidelines being enforced. As a user, it'll give me more confidence in flatpaks.

[–] subwoofer@lemmy.gockandgum.party 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

uh...sorry, wasn't my intention to make the post come out that way.

[–] beta_tester@lemmy.ml 2 points 9 months ago

No worries

[–] SheeEttin@programming.dev 1 points 9 months ago

Counterpoint: I prefer it the way you've done it.

Although I do not like a title of a statement with a question mark glued on. This is a pet peeve of mine. You could ask "is flatpak's icon style guide too strict?", though Betteridge's law of headlines says the answer is no.

[–] joojmachine@lemmy.ml 2 points 9 months ago

The whole point of that is make it clear that the dark mode of the app isn't its default state. It doesn't say "dark theme bad", it clearly says just that the screenshots shouldn't only be in dark mode.

[–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

That dark theme screenshot is bad and light theme is good is nuts because if theme is important you provide a 50/50 screenshot showing off the themes.

I don't think that was the point, it says "Having some screenshots to show off that e.g. dark style is supported is fine."

If you look at the screenshot, it shows the app using a weird font, as well as non-default header bar buttons. That's the main area of contention. Screenshots showing weird fonts, non-standard window additions, custom themes, aren't recommended.

Showing the app supports dark mode is completely fine.

[–] merthyr1831@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago

+1 for suggesting karl marx as a lorem ipsum user profile lmao.

most of it is okay, but I do think it was a bit rude to basically call out a bunch of app devs for their icon styles, and suggest theyre updated for "modern styles", but other than that I'm not against their own repo wanting to have some polished metadata

[–] moreeni@lemm.ee 7 points 9 months ago

My opinion is pretty much the same. The guidelines for naming and screenshot are great, and it would have been good if they were applied in all stores, not just FlatHub. The icon guidelines, on the other hand, are too much, IMO.

[–] savvywolf@pawb.social 4 points 9 months ago

Yeah, this is... Not great.

"Yeah, just download LibreOffice from flathub. No, you need to have a space in it. Yes, that's the one; I know the icon is wrong."

And, quite frankly, I don't know how they think they'll get away with requiring specific icon styles. Big software companies tend to be very protective over their brand recognition. And small indie shops tend to host not have the resources to remake their icon every time Google decides to roll out a new fashion sense.

There's also the security issue of not allowing apps to present themselves in a way that people recognise. How do I trust I've got the legitimate version of an app?

I know it's "just a guideline", but that's a dogwhistle for "do this or we'll hide your package".

[–] BaalInvoker@lemmy.eco.br 2 points 9 months ago

Nice

[–] DerpDerpingtonIsHere@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

I think it's a good start but some of them are kinda over doing it.