this post was submitted on 11 Jun 2026
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196
'Fairly Lazy Explanation’: Rivian's CEO Doesn’t Think Americans Are Anti-EV (insideevs.com)
submitted 3 days ago by sanitation@lemmy.today to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[–] blitzen@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Go back 10-15 years (and ignore everything we've learned about Elon Musk.) Tesla's were objectively cool.

But now they're high priced, and software locked, track everything you do and everywhere you go, will trap you inside if caught on fire, require costly body work if in a fender bender which also takes forever, have replaced buttons with screens and door handles with software, and depreciate like a lead balloon.

No, dumbass, we're not against EVs, we're against your version of EVs. If Honda ever puts out an Accord EV with Android Auto / Car Play (and priced appropriately), the EV wars are over. That's all we want.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I don't understand why they can't just make electric versions of their most popular cars. I'm not saying take the chassis and literally just get rid of the engine and put motors on the wheels because that's where you get things at the Nissan leaf from. But they can start with their popular cars as a good jumping off point.

Personally I want an electric version of the Ford Estate, with fold down and removable back seats for when I need the extra storage capacity, two hook on the back, roof racks on the roof, and lots of buttons. I don't need self-driving unless it actually works and I don't anything clever doing with the door handles, It's a car that's going to be driving on the road at 60, it doesn't need to be particularly aerodynamic.

[–] Cherry@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago

Saw a vid of a Mkll escort elec. Crazy cost.

If Honda ever puts out an Accord EV with Android Auto / Car Play (and priced appropriately), the EV wars are over. - so true. The tank of the EV. Toyota Camery would be the other option.

But yeh i agree. Just some basic models. A simple head unit, options for my own apps, and a music that I can plug a music drive into. no spying, no subscriptions.

I have questioning lately if i had to convert any car which model/year would it be? i think maybe 2012-2016 audi/vw/toyota - coupe or estate car for me. For their solid build, small level or luxury and comfort.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

meanwhile honda has retreated on EVs... .AGAIN....

I so want to convert my old honda element into a 40-60m range EV. it's so damned compact and handy.

[–] chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world 23 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

The reason Americans don't buy EVs is because all EVs sold in America are:

  1. More expensive than their ICE equivalents initially
  2. Are made by idiots like GM who make their cars only pre-2023 or for one year in 2026 (seriously GM just make the fucking Bolt)
  3. Nissan.....who just FINALLY got it through their fucking heads that air cooled batteries and Chademo are bad ideas as they're about to go bankrupt
  4. Are Tesla and financially supports the trillionaire neo-nazi.

There are very few basic, cheap EVs on the American market. Tesla is really the only one and most of us refuse to support that prick.

I just bought a used 2023 Bolt EUV a few months ago. Absolutely love the thing. I got it for $15.5k and it still has 5 years of warranty. And GM decided "hey....you know that car you love? We're going to stop making it because it doesn't have the margins our big boi SUV gas guzzlers have. Sorry and fuck you".

[–] blitzen@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)
  1. They depreciate faster than room temperature milk.

Now, that depreciation may be (or probably is) offset by the decreased fuel and maintenance costs, but I see this point too often ignored.

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

I'm planning to get an EV (when I can afford one, who on earth can afford to buy new cars??) but my biggest concern is with battery degradation - it's improved a bunch, but you're still looking at 80-85% capacity after 8 years with gentle use - which if the car already just barely has the range I need... nngh. It really doesn't get talked about and it's such a huge part of the logistics you need to consider when getting an EV.

[–] chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Unless you're travelling 200+ miles every day and assuming a 20% reduction in range after 8-10 years, most EVs start with ~225-250 miles of range, so at 80%, which is pretty much the realistic worst case scenario, that's still around 180-200 miles of range.

Plus, they don't need oil changes/spark plugs/coils/etc., electric is cheaper than gas per mile by usually 2-4x, they don't need brakes or calipers hardly because of regen braking, and so much more.

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I know, but thanks for taking the time to put that together.

(ah, you edited in the second paragraph - upkeep is lower yes, obviously gas is more expensive than electricity as a fuel, but afaik wear on breaks actually tends to be higher given the increased weight of EVs. This has little to do with the practical longevity of the vehicle, however.)

[–] chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

For sure and fair enough.

I just feel the need to remind people when they mention degradation as a concern, that a degraded battery after a decade doesn't just turn into a paperweight. It just goes slightly less far.

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Losing 1/5 of your range isn't exactly a slight reduction. When the topic is "this logistical aspect is underdiscussed" downplaying its importance is somewhat unhelpful, but I do appreciate the sentiment here.

[–] blitzen@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Not to mention the need at some point to replace the battery, which can cost thousands.

I don't mention that and the depreciation bullet point to disparage EV adoption. It's a good thing we are moving away from ICE to EV. But it's a little like two steps forward one step back, and most people don't talk about the one step back parts.

[–] chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Batteries don't usually just "die" though. You don't have to even think about replacing it. Even if a 250 mile EV loses 30% of its capacity after 8-10 years (which is higher than most besides older gen Nissan Leafs), that means it can still drive 175 miles.

[–] innermachine@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

True what if half the year is below freezing? Now the range might be 100 miles. Still enough for most people to commute daily but could present issue if you'd driving home for Christmas. We are still in the early days of ev, and I think another leap in battery tech will make EV a no brainer. Ice cars do degrade but a well cared for ice will run 300k miles for a gasser and likely 2x for a diesel, and run for decades. I have driven 70 year old CJ3b that was in a barn for 15+ years. Drug it out, put air in tires, set points, drained + filled tank and spun the crank by hand with some oil in cyls before trying to fire. Had it putting down the road in a few hours, something to be said about those old machines!

[–] chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Diesels don't run for shit anymore. All of the DPF and EGR systems kill them after 150-200k max. Gone are the days of the 7.3L Ford or 5.9 Cummins that were bulletproof. I still drive around my gasser 7.5L in my 95 F250, but it's a gas guzzling beast.

As for range loss on cold, that's true for LFP batteries. Not NMC, which is what most cars use. Range loss in the winter is mostly from climate control, but unless your car is using a resistive heater, this isn't hardly any range loss.

[–] innermachine@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Well I've personally seen multiple 15+ Duramax with over a quarter million miles, and my co worker has a 3.0 eco diesel Cherokee with just over 200k! That's more than impressive for a modern stellantis product lmfao. But I do get your point, their not as reliable as they used to be for sure. I work on old diesel land rovers and there's nothing quite like a 1.9 idi rattling it's guts out to struggle moving a glorified powered wheelbarrow lol. And all these new diesel rigs anything like 02+ is basically pull the cab off the frame for any service so ur not doing much of that shit at home unless you have a skid steer or forklift or an actual lift at ur disposal. NMC do still loose range in the cold, and coupled with the energy required to heat the cabin your certainly not getting the range you'd expect on a nice mild 55-70* day. A gas or diesel produces a lot of waste heat, which used to heat the cabin does not affect range. Ice vehicles do not sacrifice any significant range to either heat or cool the cabin, but I'm sure once we have slightly more energy dense batteries that can hold more KWH / lb we will be having a whole different conversation.

[–] isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Hyundai and KIA are notably missing from your list. Besides the DC converter failures, they're very solid.

Toyota / Subaru make EVs, but in a "fiiiine, if you insist" way, their heart really wasn't into it and it shows.

[–] chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Ioniq 5 and 6 also suffer from ICCU failures like crazy and other gremlins in their high voltage system. I was going to buy an Ioniq 5, but this steered me clear of the brand for now.

The Kia Soul EV seems fine, but isn't it super range limited like the Nissan Leaf used to be? I haven't looked at them in a while, but last I knew their Soul EV only got ~120-150 miles of range.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

KIA

after that whole kia boys / usb debacle I'd never trust the brand.

[–] isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)
  1. This is Hyundai USA and KIA USA, vehicles in other markets were not affected (it affected both equally btw, their turn key vehicles lacked interlock chips and the FMVSS doesn't require them, so they found a way to cheap out)
  2. This is limited to older turn key vehicles, pre-2021. All their EVs have smart keys.
[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

yes. I don't think they still feature this vulnerability.

but it was so bad, and such a stupid thing to cheap out on - I'll never trust the brand.

[–] Alpha71@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Just so everyone knows

[–] kboos1@lemmy.world 85 points 3 days ago (11 children)

I'm not against EVs, I'm against subscriptions for a vehicle that already costs more than $60k and feels like toy.

[–] limonfiesta@lemmy.world 31 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (5 children)

Unfortunately all new cars, including EV's, sold in the American market have been repurposed into intelligence gathering apparatuses.

I will not buy any car that has any generation of cellular modem built-in, let alone AI cameras to constantly scan my face.

Which means I'll probably be driving 2010 era vehicles for the rest of my life, which frankly I'm okay with.

So even if they regulate or ban subscription car features, you're still stuck with a giant 24/7 spy box in your garage.

[–] invertedspear@lemmy.zip 15 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Look into which ones have the modem on a dedicated fuse for easy disabling. The modern F150 generation, including the Lightning EV truck, have a single fuse you can pull that disables a few things, none of which are vital.

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[–] newtraditionalists@kbin.melroy.org 27 points 3 days ago

This it the main deterrent for most "innovations" these days. No, im not going to subscribe. If you require a subscription its a non starter.

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[–] _haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works 45 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

I would consider buying a new EV as long as it was affordable, safe, good quality, and didn't spy on me. Otherwise, I'm sticking with old manuals and bikes.

Also, anyone who wants to charge me a subscription to use anything on the vehicle I own can eat all of my shit and hair.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

eat all of my shit and hair

ew, waiter, there's a hair in this shit!

[–] synae@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Idk about the telemetry in the electronics in regards to privacy but we just got a 2021 Bolt used (previously leased w/ 12k miles) and it was 17k USD out the door and my wife loves it. It gets charged off solar at home and we laugh at people talking about gas prices. Bikes, trains, busses, and regular old feet are also a big part of our lives, but IMO people acting like EVs are an impossibility are deluding themselves to defend a harmful status quo /shrug

[–] _haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

You might want to look into what spying it is doing and how you can mitigate or disable it. It may be as easy as pulling a fuse. For now, my only EVs are e-bikes with basic enough components that they're not capable of spying.

[–] kalpol@lemmy.ca 11 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Its the spying and subscriptions that keep me away.

[–] synae@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

We don't have any subscriptions for the car 🤔 I can't speak to the spying, I guess that's something to look into

[–] RickyRigatoni@piefed.zip 48 points 3 days ago

American auto manufactutereeurs are trying to sell us $60k cars in an economy where we can barely afford usedslop.

[–] noahm@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Rivian's CEO also says "AI Defined Vehicles" are the future and that this is what buyers really want, so screw that guy.

[–] Hazor@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Wtf does that even mean. Pedal make go, steering wheel turn. What do I need AI for?!

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 1 points 1 day ago

no its just propaganda to keep ice in the market, plus to keep competition from domestic ev market, which is overpriced.

[–] Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works 39 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Yeah, it's because the vehicles that are selling so incredibly well in Europe aren't available in the US, namely the BYD range.

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[–] voytrekk@sopuli.xyz 23 points 3 days ago (33 children)

One of the largest issues is the American mindset when it comes to buying vehicles. Many people consider all of their needs, even those that might be yearly. Most EVs have the range to handle 99% of most peoples trips, but they consider that last 1% of a yearly road trip when thinking about range. It's one of the reasons that Trucks and SUVs are so popular with their higher capability.

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