this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
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My ISP has taken total control of my network (lemmy.one)
submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one to c/privacyguides@lemmy.one
94 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

This is very troubling, and I'm not even sure where to start. I recently received an email message from my ISP which alerted me to an incoming update. I didn't worry too much since this is obviously not the first update they've ever pushed through.

However, after this update, I noticed that my guest connections and some other things had changed / disappeared. I logged on to my router, and I immediately noticed my custom password had been reset to the default. No problem, I entered it.

At this point, I saw that all of my options were greyed out. I could change the password, which I did, but nothing else. I immediately called my ISP.

I was told that I would have to use their app now, so as much as I dislike using proprietary phone apps, I conceded and installed the app through the Play store.

However, the agent was not entirely honest with me. I still can't bifurcate my 2.4g and 5g connections, nor can I add or remove any guest connections. I immediately enabled "privacy mode" via the app, which purportedly prevents information from being collected by something called "HomePass," and I "Delete[d] Guard events" whatever the hell that means, but this seems really troubling. I can no longer access my modem/router settings via the normal interface, but have to use an Android app?

There is only one other ISP in my area. They have much worse/slower service, but should I switch, or is this just the "new normal"? Does what I'm describing even make sense? I'm not a tech expert, but I feel like I've self-taught myself how to navigate these settings, and learned from others in online forums, but now ... an Android app?

I'd appreciate any advice. I'd even be willing to purchase my own modem/router instead of using the one from my ISP, if that fixes this mess.

Edit: So I need my own router, at least. I did some research, and these are the ones I can get locally that are within my budget:

  • TP-Link Archer AC1900 Dual-Band Mu-Mimo Wi-Fi Router with Gigabit Port

  • Linksys AC1200 Dual Band WiFi 5 Router

  • TP-Link Archer AX1500 WiFi 6 Dual-Band Wireless Router | up to 1.5 Gbps Speeds

  • TP-Link Archer C54 | AC1200 MU-MIMO Dual-Band WiFi Router

  • NETGEAR - Nighthawk AC1900 WiFi Router, 1.9Gbps (R6900) I’VE BEEN WARNED AGAINST NETGEAR THOUGH IN OTHER FORUMS

  • TP-Link | AX1800 4 Stream Dual-Band WiFi 6 Wireless Router | up to 1.8 Gbps Speeds

  • TP-Link Archer AX3000 | 4 Stream Dual-Band WiFi 6 Wireless Router | up to 3 Gbps Speeds

  • Linksys E7350 AX1800 Wi-Fi 6 Wireless Router

Am I right in thinking the TP-Link AX3000 is best?

Edit 2: At first, I bought the Netgear AC1900, which seemed like a great deal. Turns out it was unusable without creating a netgear account, so I returned it in exchange for the TP-Link Archer AX1500, and it appears to be working! I got everything set up pretty close to the way it was before, except even better.

Once I save money, I'll also invest in a different modem and return this one to my ISP.

This was a big wake-up call for me in terms of privacy. I never listened to people saying not to use your ISP's equipment because I always trusted my ISP (it's not one of the big name ones). Never trust a company. Lesson learned. I appreciate all the responses I got! This community is great!

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[–] ANIMATEK@lemmy.world 70 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Use that shit as a modem and get another device for your internals.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one 26 points 2 years ago (3 children)

So I just got off a chat with an agent who tells me if I provide my own equipment that I will be able to use the settings as normal and delete the phone app, but that I have to use one from their supported modem list.

I'm thinking about the Arris SBG8300.

[–] Aesculapius@kbin.social 26 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Arris makes good stuff. But that is just the cable modem. It will NOT provide any router protection for your home network. Your network topology should look like this:

ISP -> your cable modem -> your router -> everything else

Honestly, if you don't have need for many ethernet connections, just get a wifi router with good reviews and the arris cable modem. Make sure the cable modem you pick up has the right DOCSIS version for the speed you are getting or plan to upgrade to. Your ISP will be able to tell you what version they are on.

[–] heeplr@feddit.de 6 points 2 years ago

Arris makes good stuff.

Except when they hardcode the challenge for logging into the admin console into their web frontend. To call the firmware code quality subpar would be an exaggeration.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Please forgive my ignorance, but this would need an additional wireless router? Isn't it built into the device?

I do understand your flowchart, but it seems to me that this model covers both the modem and router aspects.

(To be clear, this might be my own ignorance. I do remember before they had modems with wireless built in, I would connect an additional wireless router, but I might be behind the times again.)

[–] OberonSwanson@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 years ago (9 children)

I would advise against a combo unit, what’s your provider, speed tier, and how much are you looking to spend? By the way, if you have a larger home/area you plan on covering, you’ll likely need to spend more.

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[–] transmatrix@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

That would do both, but I wouldn’t buy that personally. Make’s troubleshooting a connection problem more difficult, and also if the device fails there’s two things you have to replace instead of just one. I’d go with a separate cable modem and router.

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[–] mojo@lemm.ee 33 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Never use their router. Obviously for the issue you're having now, but also for financial reasons. They charge ridiculous fees for renting their shit routers when buying one for like $120 will be a significant upgrade over there's and will start saving money like 6 to 8 months in. Also it's not tied to the company, so you get to keep it.

[–] ruckblack@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 years ago

I even had the tech try to install their own router after I'd told them I'd be using my own hardware, and then he ARGUED with me that theirs was better and faster. Didn't ask for your opinion, install the service the way I asked, I know what I'm talking about in this space.

[–] finestnothing@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

I spent about $200 on a router and modem when I moved into my last apartment, they have already paid for themselves based on the fees that Xfinity would've charged to "rent" the equipment. Plus they're significantly better than the equipment that isp's provide

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[–] TigrisMorte@kbin.social 24 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Never use the ISP provided equipment on your network. Even if you must use their modem and router, have them turn of the wifi, and connect your router to their garbage using the WAN port to connect from their LAN port with nothing else connected. If they refuse to turn off their wifi and you can't do so through the admin, cover their crap in a Faraday cage to kill the signal. Always enter your own DNS settings on your router, never use their DNS. Make sure to use an encrypted DNS to avoid them hijacking it.

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[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 20 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You should out the ISP by name. Fuck those guys

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one 4 points 2 years ago

I know, but like I've said before, that would also be a bad choice for me regarding my own personal privacy.

If I felt comfortable doing so, I would have named them immediately because I'm utterly disgusted with this shit.

[–] kmartburrito@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago (2 children)

OP, people often mention openwrt, but you can also buy a FreshTomato compatible router and also try that. It's super user friendly, regularly updated, and has a significant amount of features you would likely never find on average routers, just like openwrt.

I really like using the VPN functionality and running an openVPN server and dynamic DNS setup so I can always connect my phones to a trusted VPN and backhaul my connection through home while I'm out and on a risky open connection.

As a Cybersecurity professional, I feel like it's got a lot of good things going for it that I really appreciate, and you can control it without the ISP being able to intrude on your network.

I run my wired connections through that and use the router for DHCP, and then also have a separate mesh system for my wireless. I can set up separate virtual networks as needed and have them separated/isolated altogether, or allow specifically how I want them to see each other, etc.

You can even set up entirely different networks by port on the back of the router. Cool stuff. Openwrt is good too, but most people don't know about FreshTomato I don't think, it spun off of Tomato several years ago when those devs quit updating it.

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[–] hedders@fedia.io 15 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Never ceases to amaze me just how awful US ISPs are. Why do they get to behave like this? Are they local monopolies or something?

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one 10 points 2 years ago (2 children)

There's one other big provider here, but it's not nearly as fast or reliable, nor as easy to work with. Up until today, I always praised my ISP, but this is absolutely bonkers!

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[–] Bigs@kbin.social 13 points 2 years ago

Name and shame, dude. Your post is great and we need some proper nouns.

[–] Turbo@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 years ago

That's unacceptable. I agree get a dumb modem from them and use your own Router/firewall/ access points

[–] Laitinlok@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Not worth the hassle, replace the stupid router with an openwrt one

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one 6 points 2 years ago

I was about to comment that I don't know how to do that, but it looks like openwrt actually has its own forums.

Still not ready to do this on the spot, but this is another thing worth educating myself about, thanks

[–] DanNZN@thelemmy.club 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I got a MikroTik router and never looked back. That thing is amazing.

Edit: typo

[–] yukichigai@kbin.social 8 points 2 years ago

Talk to your ISP about getting a modem only, without a built-in router, then purchase a separate router of your own. All-in-one modem/router combos are generally kind of crap anyway, and one that your ISP can control directly is obviously a problem on top of that. I get why they'd do that: most users don't know a damn thing about how to properly set up their network, and being able to change settings without walking the users through it would simplify things. Still crap, but I get why.

Even if you have to buy your own modem, definitely go for a modem-only device and a separate router. Personally I go the extra length of having a modem, a separate wired-only router, and a separate wireless access point for wifi. Combo devices have a habit of not managing memory well and needing to be reset more often.

[–] Jimmycakes@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I saw your edit are you able to get an asus router in your budget? Check Facebook and Craigslist. That's gonna be the best brand you can buy with the most features. I got a little usb drive hooked up and it has a built in encrypted torrent Downloader. Mine is pretty expensive but I'm sure you can find a used one.

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[–] Syrup@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

Change iSP if you can, ans un any case you should use your own router running OpenWRT to have full control over your own network

[–] liara@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago

It sounds like what you want is to either get a modem (either rented through the ISP or bought 3rd party, if your ISP supports it) and then ensure that this modem is in bridge mode without any sort of router features. That said, most places will just give you a dumb modem if you have no intention of using their router.

Then the other gear would be a router with the feature set you want. I personally am quite fond of my Mikrotik hap ac2 but the ac3 looks good too. I don't use the Mikrotik for the wifi either (I use unifi for that), but it's decent enough for a small space in a pinch.

Basically you would need to find out from your ISP if they allow you to bring your own gear -- modem and/or router, with the router being the more important of the two and get their help to either swap your existing device into a bridge or getting you something that can.

[–] kite@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (5 children)

I don't know if anyone has murmurings this yet, but if you leave a landline that is through your ISP, and connected to the router, you may not be able to use your own router. Spectrum doors not let you, and despite all the research I did before, I did not find that out until after I purchased my own. You can ask them to split the line and use the old router with the phone, and your new router for internet, but there are potential issues with degradation of service involved, as well as the more mundane problems of running into ISP support who are not interested in understanding what you want, and getting the line actually, physically split.

[–] shortestbreath@lemm.ee 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

In work for them. This is as intended. Its meant to reduce service calls where the customer borks it themselves. I'm not an expert so this may not apply everywhere, but you shouldn't have a problem using a non-spectrum router without even telling them. I don't use theirs. You should just be able to go buy it, plug the line in , and turn it on. They don't need to know. In recommend using your own anyway for many reasons. Yours will be more configurable and you can tell them you don't need theirs, saving you 7 bucks or whatever a month.

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[–] Zozano@aussie.zone 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Personally I would drop them out of principle. I don't feel like supporting assclowns. Its the same reason I started using Linux, Lemmy, Qwant, etc.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one 5 points 2 years ago

I feel the same way. I'm really upset about this. It's just ... there's not a lot of choice. I could be going out of the frying pan and into the fire, but it's at least worth looking into.

[–] MenacingMight@lemmy.one 5 points 2 years ago

Sounds like Comcast lol they suck. It sounds like you are using the router provided by your isp. Try getting your own equipment (router/modem).

[–] habanhero@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I have been running a TP-Link Archer C4000 for several years now. Super solid, great price, no complaints. For me the tri-band capability is more important than Wifi-AX, which isn't very useful unless you need incredibly fast network speed or if you have a ton of devices (which all need to be supporting AX).

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[–] GreatBlue@infosec.pub 5 points 2 years ago

You could also look into OpenWrt and maybe get your device an open firmware. For a more advanced setup you can look into OPNsense, but you will probably need additional devices for WLAN, DECT, etc.

[–] Maoo@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago

To add to others' advice to get your own router and use the modem only to connect to the internet (WAN), consider getting a router on which you can install OpenWRT. This will give you much more confidence that only you control your network.

[–] angelsomething@lemmy.one 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Ask for bridge mode and install your own router. It’s the first and most important step towards privacy. Also sounds like you got plume devices. Only use them in Wi-Fi bridge mode. You retain some of heir functions and utilities but you’ll still be in control of your network.

[–] Limit@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago

I've had bad luck with all the name brand router wifi combos. I've tried several high end models, from tplink to linksys to net gear. I've finally built a pfsense box as a router/firewall (qotom mini pc) and I've switched to ubiquity ap6 in my house. Finally something that works well for me.

Granted it depends on what you're comfortable with and what you use your devices for. I'm using vlans and vpns and different interfaces for various different things so I need the extra functionality pfsense offers.

[–] EpicFailGuy@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

@LinkOpensChest_wav

Welcome to xFinity Xfi or whatever they call their crap.

Get your own router (that saves you 10$ a month and sparesy from this crap)

Or if you can't replace their modem, then get your own and use theirs in bridge mode

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one 3 points 2 years ago

At first I thought that I couldn't use bridge mode, but it looks like I can.

I think I'll go this route to start with, but eventually replace the modem, too.

I've noticed there's an extremely wide range in prices for wifi routers. Is there really that much difference between them?

[–] Vexz@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Depending on where you live you might just let your ISP give you a modem and you can choose the router yourself. ISPs use the TR-069 protocol which allows them to manage and administrate the router they gave you. This is probably what they did when they made the changes you mentioned. It even allows them to analyze your whole home network. Thanks to this they can spy on you if they want to. So my advice is to just get a modem from them and choose your own router because then they can't spy on you. My advice is to use OPNsense, it's open source.

Edit: Bridge mode + your own router so they can't spy on your home network would also do the trick.

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