A nice place to discuss rumors, happenings, innovations, and challenges in the technology sphere. We also welcome discussions on the intersections of technology and society. If it’s technological news or discussion of technology, it probably belongs here.
Remember the overriding ethos on Beehaw: Be(e) Nice. Each user you encounter here is a person, and should be treated with kindness (even if they’re wrong, or use a Linux distro you don’t like). Personal attacks will not be tolerated.
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This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
I really don't want to sound snobbish, but people are really entitled these days.
"Omg you have to pick a server?! I'm going to have to spend more that 30s figuring out how this works? There is no alternative!"
When did everyone become a spoiled toddler? Just calm down, take some time to figure things out, and be patient.
/rant
I'm honestly starting to feel like it might be a net benefit for the barrier to entry to be higher. Since I switched to the Fediverse I have found that post quality is higher here than on Reddit, there's less flaming, fewer low-effort overdone joke comment chains etc. Also it reminds me that there is better shit to do with my life than spend 3 hours a day reading a bunch of hyper-specific subforums that I'm subscribed to.
I didn't know what the Fediverse was a week ago, and now I'm active on Lemmy and Mastodon. I think people are dramatically overstating how difficult it is to sign up. It's not hard, it's just new.
And besides, I don't think the fediverse needs to take over at all. It just needs to have active, viable, engaging communities. As Iong as enough people end up here to sustain that, it doesn't really matter if they overtake the places we're coming from.
Feels like a smear campaign at this point. They're making it sound like you have to dig through instances and code your own interface or something
Like Drew got no clue said, the issue is that the author can't handle the tiny amount of friction encountered during the process. IMO, it keeps out those that wouldn't be contributing anyway.
Edit: Our -> out
IMO, it keeps our those that wouldn’t be contributing anyway.
I disagree strongly with this view. One of the truly valuable elements of reddit is/was the shared knowledge for a lot of things that are not techy. As a somewhat recent homeowner, the r/homeimprovement subreddit and the mildly related ones have been invaluable. It's populated by random homeowners of all types and experts in various professional and DIY fields. These are not people who are likely to migrate to Lemmy in droves and that's a loss, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe some will make it and smaller communities might grow to have similar knowledge wells, but they won't be as deep.
I'm all-in on the transition away from the social media giants, but there's a lot about the simplicity of a non-federated platform that won't carryover which will make the barrier to entry higher than many people want to navigate, and that is definitely a shame.
I agree with you that it isn't that difficult. I signed up on mastodon.social months ago. It was a little confusing about picking an instance so I just arbitrarily picked one. The same was true for lemmy. Now I'm on lemme.ee and behaw.org.
In the case of Matodon, I recently discovered the Explore option. There's more than enough posts to keep me reading for hours. And most of them are interesting. Imagine reading an unfiltered Twitter feed. I don't need Mastodon to get any bigger for my needs. It may even be better if it doesn't get a huge membership. The same holds true for lemmy and kbin, bigger and better yes, but they don't have to be a Reddit replacement.
I told someone about uBlock as they were getting ads left and right, and I was told "oh no, I don't wanna install anything!"
So if it's not extremely frictionless, many people won't even try...
(I agree with your second point BTW)
People are fucking stupid bro. They just need that algorithm to tell them they dont even want to search for communities explore and learn.
“Mastodon isn’t ready,” I read every day, posted on Mastodon.
That so many people think Mastodon is hard to join makes me think that there are a lot of people on the internet now who have never learned how to use the internet
I think there's active misinformation being shared about the difficulty of use for fediverse playforms. Yeah it's 20 clicks instead of 5 but it's not that hard.
It's easy to forget outside of communities like this how low tech literacy actually is.
I think I don't understand probably 95% of how the internet works and I'm fairly sure that I'm above average in my general understanding.
If the Fediverse really wants to break into the mainstream, and I'm neither saying it does or it should, then these things need to become easier and straightforward.
Joining a server isn't hard, but finding content outside of the server you have chosen can be. Lemmy seems to be better than Mastodon here, but still.
People don't care about federation as such. They want their social network and they want it all, regardless of which server it sits on, and they want it easy.
People in 90s and 2000s used to get informed before going online, as it used to be a big spending and commitment. Between all the tech-utopia hype you also got to hear about what to avoid and how to behave.
Nowadays you only need a cheap smartphone and start scrolling through algorithm-fed content indefinitely. No need for technical knowledge because the company takes care of that. No need for an intro class, because who even bothers anymore?
Something I often need to keep in mind is that when I was growing up the home PC was pretty crude and mysterious. You had to learn what a command line was, you had to learn about data backups and file trees, you had to learn about navigation and discovery of the web.
Sure you might not have done any of this stuff for decades now, depending on how you engage with the infernal devices, but if you see a forum you know what that is, how it works, what you expect to find inside. If you see URLs with like foo.com/place@otherfoo you kinda intuitively grasp what that is saying.
But if you're like 20 now probably the first computer you ever touched was a magic box where you just clicked things to open stuff and they managed their own little things. Clicked a thing to install other clicky things. You don't know what a config file is, why would you? you don't really use URLs much, you just click the internet and start typing and then click the right link etc.
To a lot of those people some of this stuff is as arcane as like arch linux is to your average millennial PC user. Despite fedi (and arch! I use arch btw) actually being really simple and obvious there's a barrier of unfamiliarity and a lot of basic skills you need to learn first.
This is what I've observed in Gen Z and younger - they just expect functional UIs, and to have pre-setup file directories and libraries, but don't actually know what those things are and what they do.
Yeah it's just the result of progress. I've watched people my age get stunlocked by carburettor issues or the concept of a choke. It's unfortunate but sleekness often trades off with user serviceability.
Rather than being all "hgngh grrr the damn kids with their geegaws and whimgets don't know how to use a simple butter churn" we have to teach people how to feel confident learning different ways of doing things and most importantly why they should care to do so.
I never interacted much with Twitter and I'm not a hardcore Mastodonian either, but I don't understand why people say it's hard to join.
For me, the process was simple:
That was it. There was only one step (selecting the server) that is different from any other site. And it didn't require SMS verification like Facebook, Twitter, and even Google do nowadays. It was objectively easier than signing up for Twitter.
Am I missing something, or did these people just shit their pants at the server selection screen? I get that it's a little unfamiliar but...just pick one. It doesn't really matter. That's the whole point.
I think the biggest issue is finding the content you are looking for.
Sometimes people aren’t on Mastodon and even if they are it’s not alway easy to find them if they are not on the same instance.
I don't understand why some people get so confused either. It's just like choosing an e-mail provider.
Create the account, try it out, if you don't like it, delete it. If you do like it, keep it. How hard can this be? Then again, it apparently is.
The client apps might help out by including an account creation wizard.
Go outside
Touch grass
The fediverse is ready, if you build it they will come!
I think there needs to be a sensible way to crowdfund the server costs, but I can’t see any other reason why it shouldn’t succeed
My only issue with Lemmy is that it's not a true Reddit replacement, especially when places keep defederating from one another. Like I spend far less time here on Beehaw because it's defederated from some of the major instances - I understand the administrators' concerns about moderation but over time a lot of the activity will center itself around the most active instances (i.e., users may come from a diversity of instances) but only interact with content on Lemmy.world.
Every time I visit lemmy.world I find myself coming straight back to beehaw because insufferable people make lemmy.world feel just like reddit did and I just get pissed off after 5 minutes of scrolling. Beehaw is perfect for me specifically because there are less people.
I don't think the Fediverse will or should "take over". It already exists in a highly-usable form. I suggest the author stick with Reddit, Twitter, and Discord.
It seems like the author is asking “why isn’t there a just-like-Reddit or just-like-Twitter site that was totally ready and waiting for this moment, and even though we’d never heard of it before now has everyone using it?”
Fediverse is different, and that’s a good thing. Because note how all of these corporate social media platforms are ending up…
This feels like the same anti-FOSS FUD that was there 20 years ago against linux: 'it's not ready!' and 'who will provide support?' and 'it's too hard for people to figure out!' and 'how can you make money if it's free?' and so on.
Of course, the whole world runs on Linux now and it's eaten the lunch of every single proprietary competitor... it just took more than a week to do it, which is far too long of a cycle if you're a clickbait "journalist" on corpo-owned media.
The Verge peeps are rather enthusiastic about Activity Pub based platforms, I wouldn't attribute bad intent there.
Linux is used by most of the world but it's either backend where techies take care of things or super streamlined experiences like Android etc.
Neither is Kbin, which doesn’t even have mobile apps
not everything needs a mobile app, sheesh. both kbin and Lemmy have great mobile websites.
They must be used to all the major social medias having absolutely butchered their mobile sites
Mastodon can be heavy on censorship by banning IP addresses rather than individual accounts. Not banning an account, but IP. So when one instance bans an IP, that means that IP is blocked from all users on that instance.
Twitter has never banned IP addresses, only accounts. Twitter does not keep a list of naughty words that result in immediate ban after posting, and suspended users can still reaxh Twitter to discuss the issue.
It seems that federated platforms are more ban happy than the corporate platforms. If Lemmy and Mastodon really want to challenge the bigger companies, protect offensive posts, protect mockery and insults, people challenging or correct someone's statement, and distinguish them from actual attacks and degrading words.
If Lemmy and Mastodon really want to challenge the bigger companies, protect offensive posts, protect mockery and insults,
This sounds awful and was exactly the kind of thing that made me want to leave Reddit.
Exactly.
Why the fuck would "protect offensive posts, protect mockery and insults " ever be the kind of ethos anyone would ever want? Yeah, I would totally love being called a fa**ot 37 times a day, and totally want to be sure anyone can do that.
Fuck that shit.
The only reason anyone wants to protect offensive content is that they want to be able to post offensive co tent themselves without consequence. They might as well admit that they just want to say slurs and be done with the pretense.
And just to head things off: no, I am 100% NOT a free speech absolutist, and I think such a mentality is extremely harmful. It destroys communities and it destroys people.