this post was submitted on 17 Feb 2024

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What happened outside Mount Sinai Hospital as a pro-Palestine rally passed by? (www.thegrindmag.ca)

submitted 8 months ago by CaractacusPotts@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca

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[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 18 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Fuck Israel.

[+] etuomaala@sopuli.xyz -22 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Is that directed at the people, the government, or both?

[–] Evkob@lemmy.ca 27 points 8 months ago

Is that directed at the people

Did they say "Fuck Israelis"? You have to be either really thin-skinned to take offense to "Fuck insert country here", or you support the thing that's being criticized (which in this case is genocide).

Like, I'm Canadian, and when First Nations people say "Fuck Canada" because of the centuries of oppression and genocide they've faced, I don't take personal offense because I do not support the genocide of First Nations people. They're right, fuck Canada.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 24 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Seems obvious to me they're referring to the genocidal state of Israel.

When I say "fuck the United States," I'm not talking about my mom, myself, or even my neighbor's pet budgie. Duh.

[+] etuomaala@sopuli.xyz -13 points 8 months ago (1 children)

So, the government, then?

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I'm not the OP of that comment, but again:

Seems obvious to me they’re referring to the genocidal state of Israel.

Not sure what was unclear about that. Maybe you need to take it slowly, word by word. Best of luck to you.

[+] etuomaala@sopuli.xyz -11 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Whether "state" includes the people is ambiguous.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Only to people who completely lack reading comprehension skills and/or basic understanding of English. Or trolls who actually support genocide and deliberately misconstrue things so they can argue against a strawman.

I also have a guess about which one you are.

[+] etuomaala@sopuli.xyz -12 points 8 months ago (1 children)

ad hominem

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Aww poor dear feels attacked. Don't worry honey🫂

It's ok sweetheart, here's something that can help you understand

[–] etuomaala@sopuli.xyz -3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Hm. That is actually a pretty cool website. I've been looking for an alternative to google translate. The Wiktionary can be a little tedious at times.

But how would I use this to prove that "state" and "government" are generally synonymous in most practical contexts?

[–] livus@kbin.social 8 points 8 months ago (2 children)

@etuomaala I'm not @LinkOpensChest_wav but I would like to chime in.

But how would I use this to prove that “state” and “government” are generally synonymous in most practical contexts?

You wouldn't need to, because we're not talking about "most practical contexts".

We're only talking about contexts in which people are protesting the actions of a government.

[–] etuomaala@sopuli.xyz -2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

And in this context, "state" and "government" are synonymous?

[–] livus@kbin.social 4 points 8 months ago

@etuomaala normally, yes.

If a word has more than one meaning but one of the meanings is a synonym for the subject which is being talked about, it's a safe bet that this is the intended meaning in that context.

I think maybe a dictionary might be better here than just a translator.

[–] etuomaala@sopuli.xyz -4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Also, I don't think that is the clear context. I've talked to way too many people online who actually do hate Israel, its people, and its government. I actually legitimately do not know which group the guy saying "Fuck Israel" belongs to. So, I'm trying to find out before jumping to conclusions.

[–] livus@kbin.social 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

@etuomaala in that case, you are not posting in good faith.

This article is about people protesting the actions of the government of Israel. It's reasonable to assume the top level comments in here address the article topic.

[–] etuomaala@sopuli.xyz -3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

Look, man, I already said exactly why I asked the question. What more do you want from me? I did not post in bad faith. Maybe "Fuck Israel." was clear to you. Fine. It was not clear to me. Jesus.

[–] FaceDeer@kbin.social 4 points 8 months ago

It was made clear to you, immediately and concisely. You should have accepted that clarification and moved on with your life. Instead you continued poking and prodding after that in search of some way to misconstrue what was being said.

[–] livus@kbin.social 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

@etuomaala I'm sorry that you are having this experience, but your own description of your motivation makes it sound like bad faith.

If there was an article on a 40°heatwave, with a photo of people on a beach. And I commented "That's very hot".

If you asked me do I mean 40° is hot or do I actually mean the people on the beach are hot/sexually attractive. Because you have met people online before who objectify women in photographs.

That would be bad faith on your part, because instead of taking my comment at face value in terms of the obvious meaning, you would be immediately suspecting me of some other, far worse meaning.

Going around asking people who criticize a nation state whether they are also racist is similarly bad faith. That's why people in here are being so hostile.

[–] etuomaala@sopuli.xyz -1 points 8 months ago

Going around asking people who criticize a nation state whether they are also racist is similarly bad faith.

For the last time, it is not clear to me that the guy saying "fuck Israel" is only criticising the government, even with the accompanying context. This is what I've been trying to tell you. It seems clear to everybody else here. Fine.

There are plenty of people blaming Israel and Israelis for what is happening in Gaza. If this guy is one of them, I want to know. Not because I wish to insult him or see him banned, but because I want to better understand him. And he still hasn't answered for himself. His is still the only answer I will accept. I should never have even responded to the other answers. I regret that I did.

Until I hear back from that guy, I'm done with this whole thing.

[–] etuomaala@sopuli.xyz -3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Is this what you are like in person?

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yes, I also help people irl

[–] etuomaala@sopuli.xyz -3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

I meant do you call perfect strangers stupid, then say things like

Aww poor dear feels attacked. Don’t worry honey🫂

It’s ok sweetheart.

Are you like this in person?

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You're gonna have to quote me using that word. I think you're hallucinating

[–] etuomaala@sopuli.xyz -2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You did not use the word stupid, but you did call me stupid. You said I did not understand basic English.

So, are you like this in person?

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yes, I also dunk on bad trolls in real life

[–] etuomaala@sopuli.xyz -2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You have come to the wrong conclusion about me. It is disappointing. I was actually trying to figure out whether they guy saying "Fuck Israel" was including Israelis in that. This does happen, like a lot.

But in any case, I would say you still haven't answered the question. When you dunk on trolls in real life, are you the same level of insulting and condescending? That is what I am asking. I'm not asking about what you are doing. I am asking about how you are doing it. You really are being needlessly rude. It is very offputting.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

No I'm not condescending at all, and you are clearly beneath me for thinking I am /s

Edit: Also, I know you're Just Asking Questions™ -- it's used a lot by obvious trolls, but people can see right through people like yourself

[–] etuomaala@sopuli.xyz -2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

OK, for real, though, what if you're wrong about me? Sure there are trolls using the JAQ play, but then there are people who are actually legitimately just asking questions. That's the whole reason trolls even use this tactic. Because people like you mistake people like me for trolls, effectively increasing the number of trolls.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yet, you act "sO cOnFuSeD" by words like "nation" and "state," and in spite of my using these words, you pretend that it's sO uNcLeAr if I'm referring to random Israeli citizens. That's a brazenly dishonest tactic.

It's very similar to people who insist they're confused by the word "transphobia" since "-phobia" can mean "fear of" when used out of context.

Let's be honest: You're not confused, and these people who are supposedly attacking the people of Israel are completely fabricated. Link to one. Link to one example of someone on Lemmy attacking Israeli citizens that hasn't been removed by a mod. You can't. You can't because you're a bad troll who's not entering the discussion in good faith. It was very obvious the moment you replied to the top level comment, feigning confusion, which anyone can clearly see is an act.

I'll wait until you link me to evidence of people attacking Israeli citizens. Then I'm going to block you, as one does with filthy liars and trolls.

[–] etuomaala@sopuli.xyz -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Oh, so, there have been instances of hatred toward Israeli citizens that have been removed by mods? Were these incidents also fabricated? Seems like you have actually proven the existence of these people for me.

This actually has been interesting, and I wish we could have had the same conversation without all of your insults, condescension, and histrionics, but I have had enough of it. Please do not send any further replies.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 8 months ago

I haven't seen any, but I'm sure you'd find a lot of bigotry in the modlog. If mods are removing it, then clearly it's out of the ordinary and not something that's deemed acceptable on this platform.

I hope you have a spectacular day

[–] Scary_le_Poo@beehaw.org 7 points 8 months ago

Do we need to set up some traffic cones and a Venn diagram for you? Maybe a coordination chart?

[–] sciawp@lemm.ee 14 points 8 months ago

no one talking about the fact that coverage of this situation was entirely falsified to make it seem like they protested at the hospital when they only just walked by it during their march

[–] etuomaala@sopuli.xyz 9 points 8 months ago

Fuck the Israeli government.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Part of getting anti-abortion protests away from hospitals was that we have no protests at hospitals

I imagine it’s the same people in both but how long until they learn to avoid hospitals?

[–] FaceDeer@kbin.social 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Seems like it might be a bit more nuanced than that. From the article:

There is a federal law, C-3, which deems it an offence for anyone who “intentionally obstructs or interferes with another person’s lawful access to a place at which health services are provided by a health professional.” As far as I saw while I was passing the hospital, the entranceway was clear and no one was stopped from entering or exiting the building. Other than vague mentions, I found no specific evidence that people were prevented from entering or exiting the building.

Update, Feb. 15, 11:06 a.m.: It has come to our attention that the University Ave. entrance to Mount Sinai Hospital closes at 6 p.m. daily. The protest passed by the hospital around 8 p.m., two hours after that entrance had closed. See the bottom of the map below for the University Ave. entrance hours, accessed today from the Mount Sinai Hospital website.

So this may not have broken those laws. There was apparently an incident where the crowd blocked the car of a doctor that was trying to drive home, so perhaps some more care needed to be taken, but I think everyone's just really on edge right now and looking for things to get angry about.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-coming-to-ontario/article_e7fd27bf-1806-5719-863f-5c004296e28e.html

We have this for no protests within 50m of entrances

[–] FaceDeer@kbin.social 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Ah, that might apply, then. Though that appears to be specifically about abortion clinics, and my googling suggests Mount Sinai might not provide abortions, so it might still be fiddly if it actually went to court.

Even if not, they should probably have still routed around it if only in recognition of the "on edge"ness.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 2 points 8 months ago

To me that article suggests they do because their problem was with only getting rid of one of the twins which they only do for triplets + and they have a women’s clinic

I wonder more if it applies to all entrances or just to the clinic