Movies

Sir Terry Pratchett said, regarding fantasy:

“J.R.R. Tolkien has become a sort of mountain, appearing in all subsequent fantasy in the way that Mt. Fuji appears so often in Japanese prints. Sometimes it’s big and up close. Sometimes it’s a shape on the horizon. Sometimes it’s not there at all, which means that the artist either has made a deliberate decision against the mountain, which is interesting in itself, or is in fact standing on Mt. Fuji.”

I think pretty much the same can be said for Herbert (and before him Asimov) when it comes to science-fiction...

(Reading the article, though, it seems Herbert might have been a bit more of an arse about other authors being influenced by him than Tolkien or Asimov ever were...)

Stop me if you heard this one...

A youthful squire, with the aid of a knight errant, his trusty steed, and a powerful wizard, go to rescue the beautiful princess from the evil Black Knight and his fire breathing dragon.

Both Lucas and Herbert were plugged into fundamental cultural mythology:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_with_a_Thousand_Faces

Why did he think that? Also, why have no one mentioned Valérian and Laureline? It is much easier to argue was more than just a little inspiration?

The comic was published in 1967, ten years before star wars.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2017/07/30/are-the-valrian-and-laureline-comics-really-a-big-unnamed-influence-on-star-wars

I remember seeing more side by side comparison somewhere, and the list of passing coincidences was very long. I think it was this one

And I dont get why Avatar from Cameron was not sued.

in 1979 Herbert and Ranson wrote "The Jesus Incident ":

A planet named Pandora habited by violent various beasts

The human survive in a Colony and cant barrely go out, because of the wild life.

The whole planet is covered by an entity protecting the planet it is named: AVATA. who comunicate with blinking light.

There is a scene, where one of the main human run around the human camp folded by many monster.

To survive on the planet, the human created special Clone with better reflex.

The Clone were badly treated and rebelled against the Colony

And Arrival by Villeneuve (or the book it pretend to be from) Is bit for bit from the novella :"Try to remember" From Herbert.

Aliens try to communicate to humanity.

Some woman manage to do understand their language.

But some military try to smugle a bomb in the alien ship.

I don’t remember a Death Star or a princess to save in Dune. Or robots.

It’s not, it’s a rip off of Lord of the Rings.

Also, Harry Potter is a rip off of Star Wars, which is a rip off of Lord of the Rings.

• Galaxy spanning empire with unseen emperor.
• Spice as a valuable commodity
• Desert planet to include skeleton of wormlike creature and suited inhabitants
• Secretive sect of religious warriors with magical powers
• Chosen one narrative with a dead dad

Now that said, almost every one of these is sort of set dressing and skin deep, and changed drastically in some fundamental way. Lucas was also not exploring remotely the same thematic ground as Herbert. He owes some of the world building to ideas lifted from Dune, without a doubt, but also to Lensman and Flash Gordon and John Carter of Mars. He owes plot and structure to Kurosawa ad Sergio Leone, and themes to Joseph Campbell and three thousand years of adventure tales, fairy tales, and coming of age stories. the only thing "original" about Star Wars is the integration of so many disparate influences into a coherent whole. You could argue that Dune was exploring more sophisticated themes and had a more actionable morality, but Herbert was flattering himself that Star Wars was a "ripoff." The influences were obvious, but they were just one hopper of grist for the Lucas mill.

sigh. Artistic works are often derivative. Even the music of Star Wars takes after Holst's Planets, but it's far from a copy.

The themes of the two go completely different directions. Star Wars is a fairly simple story of good and evil, while Dune dives deeper into politics and personality cults.

Hell, I'll even defend Cameron's Avatar from accusations of being derivative. You might find a list showing how it's exactly like ten other works of fiction. So, why aren't we citing those ten works as being derivative of each other? Yeah, the movie isn't that good beyond spectacle, but even spectacle adds something that those previous works did not have.

Because it had a desert planet with a giant worm for like 10 minutes?

Storytelling is reimagining the basic archetypal stories over and over again for centuries. It's important to make the stories relevant and new for every generation. There's no point in arguing who came with a motive first.

Star wars was always just a world war II movie rip off.

My son was really into Star Wars when he was a kid but was over it by the time I dragged him to see Dune. On the ride home all he had to say was that it just seemed like a big Star Wars rip off :)

Maybe... But at least Star Wars isn't giving the catholic church a blowie.

Some other parallels I haven't seen mentioned could be the revelation that the Baron is Jessica's biological father, Chani dying while giving birth to twins, Alia being Paul's secret sister.

Star Wars being a rip-off is a bit harsh and undeserved but I'd definitely say there was influence from Dune.

I haven’t gotten to Heretics yet, but that line referencing 3PO is funny.

I feel bad for him. That's silly.

He was also a terrible sack of shit. I don't give a fuck what he thought.

As if Herbert didn't rip off half his ideas from Heinlein.