this post was submitted on 28 Feb 2024
41 points (95.6% liked)

CanadaPolitics

1895 readers
3 users here now

Placeholder for any r/CanadaPolitics refugees

Rules:

All of Lemmy.ca's rules apply

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
lightrush@lemmy.ca
grte@lemmy.ca
41
Libs and NDPers must act boldly by reviving electoral reform (rabble.ca)
submitted 8 months ago by grte@lemmy.ca to c/canadapolitics@lemmy.ca
23 comments fedilink hide all child comments
top 23 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

It's a chicken or the egg scenario .... or the snake eating its tail ... it's an idea that isn't possible without giving up the past

Electoral Reform can only happen with a new system of power ... a new system of power can only come about through electoral reform

Current power structures don't, won't or can't change because of the current electoral system ... the electoral system can't change because of current power structures

We're asking the current leadership to give up their positions of power to make way for what people want ... they have to be willing to sacrifice their careers in order to create change ... they have to be the ones to create that change.

It's a dumb system because power and control is built into who ever has power ... and power can't be changed unless you find a way to remove those in power (and no I'm NOT advocating for or suggesting violent change, I'm talking about democratic change)

Unless we find more courageous politicians who are willing to make that change ... nothing will happen

Unless we find a way to disconnect money, finances and wealth from the system ... nothing will happen

EDIT: critical missing word added

[–] m0darn@lemmy.ca 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

(and no I'm advocating for or suggesting violent change, I'm talking about democratic change)

I think you're missing a "not" in there.

Yeah initially Trudeau presented himself as willing to make those changes. But he/the Liberals was/were/is/are obviously too connected/beholden to entrenched power to get electoral reform. Maybe people thought because he was new to politics he would be more independent?

[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 2 points 8 months ago

Thanks for that ... I made the edit.

I find that whenever one offers a political critique, one has to include the explicit explanation they don't advocate for violence or insurrection.

If more people ... or everyone for that matter ... just became more organized and voted out the people that are holding up this system ... we'd actually be able to institute change.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 3 points 8 months ago

We're asking the current leadership to give up their positions of power

I think the situation we are currently in, where the governing party who has a reasonably functional working relationship with another party, and seems likely to lose big to a conservative party who has historically shown that they won't cooperate with anyone else.

Electoral reform before the next election might be in the best interests of both the Liberals and NDP at this moment in time, if they believe can get enough votes between them to be able to form an actual coalition and keep the conservatives out of power.

[–] ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca 9 points 8 months ago (2 children)

It would be amazing to see something like ranked choice voting in Canada but I have my doubts. The Liberals win a lot of seats just by not being Conservative. If they introduced electoral reform they would lose that bias.

[–] ShadowRam@kbin.social 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

Cons would never have control...

Libs would never get majority....

We'd forever have a system of government where they can't me vs them. They'd be forced to work together like the Libs and NDP are doing currently.

[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

This is not true. Look at the German electorate, which is dominated by five parties which often form coalitions. The CDU/CSU conservative coalition formed grand Coalitions with the centre left SPD quite a few times successfully, after neither side could form a majority coalition.

Edit: upon revisiting my comment, strike the first sentence. Regardless, conservatives do have control in Germany. Even if it's just through coalitions. Coalitions are amazing and so is ranked choice voting.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 months ago

Seems like a reasonable outcome.

[–] phx@lemmy.ca 5 points 8 months ago

Maybe, but given house grim it looks for them in the coming election maybe it'll be "something is better than nothing"

[–] PuddingFeeling907@lemmy.ca 6 points 8 months ago

Oh dang the NDP and Liberals are on fire right now. Please keep us as far as possible from PP.

[–] sbv@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Justin Trudeau’s decision to welsh on his promise

Rabble is using racial slurs now?

[–] grte@lemmy.ca 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It doesn't seem likely that they are intentional anti-Welsh bigots. It might be worth getting in touch with them over this so they can know to use better language.

[–] sbv@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago

I sent them a message. I'm surprised the writer used such a term and the editor didn't flag it.

[–] Fenrisulfir@lemmy.ca 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I always thought it was Welch. Like Racquel. Learn something shitty everyday…

[–] sbv@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago

I think it got whitewashed a bit. But yeah. I'd expected a bit more from Rabble's editors.

[–] Kbin_space_program@kbin.social 1 points 8 months ago

The world has long forgotten that Europeans can and have been oppressed minorities.

[–] MisterD@lemmy.ca 3 points 8 months ago

A Fun way to learn for those who don't know the voting systems: https://www.cgpgrey.com/politics-in-the-animal-kingdom/

[–] Vex_Detrause@lemmy.ca 0 points 8 months ago (2 children)

There was a talk a few years ago regarding the first pass to post. What happened to that? It was Trudeau too. (Serious question)

[–] ShadowRam@kbin.social 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

They did a study, couldn't decide which system was better, didn't think they could get the provinces on board with it (which is probably right), so they scraped it.

Truth is, any of the proposed systems (while not perfect) is still better than FPTP

[–] bradbeattie@lemmy.ca 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

A little more subtle than that. The ERRE came back with a report (https://www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Committee/421/ERRE/Reports/RP8655791/errerp03/errerp03-e.pdf) whose #1 recommendation was adopting any system that's roughly proportional (e.g. MMP, STV, etc).

The Committee recommends that the Government should, as it develops a new electoral system, use the Gallagher index in order to minimize the level of distortion between the popular will of the electorate and the resultant seat allocations in Parliament. The government should seek to design a system that achieves a Gallagher score of 5 or less.

But instead of moving forward with a proportional system (which would impact the number of seats the liberals win by way of voters voting strategically for the Liberals), they instead released My democracy.ca. A push poll if there ever was one.

[–] ShadowRam@kbin.social 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Good info, thanks for the breakdown and link

[–] bradbeattie@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 months ago

I tried summarizing the history of the whole thing with relevant links in https://iscanadafair.ca/2015/. What surprised me while getting all the context together was that basically the exact same thing happened in 1909: https://iscanadafair.ca/1909-1923/.

[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 3 points 8 months ago

We have FPTP currently. And it sucks.