this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2023
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Tesla is facing issues with the bare metal construction of the Cybertruck, which Elon Musk warned was as tricky to do as making Lego bricks

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[–] Dettweiler42@lemmyonline.com 297 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's almost like he hears about how bad the build quality of Tesla cars have become, so he thinks the solution is more accurrate, more expensive parts. Kind of like he has absolutely no clue what he's doing, and doesn't want to listen to smarter people telling him what they need.

[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 151 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Elon is a masterclass in the Dunning-Kruger effect.

[–] bdesk@kbin.social 53 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think we should rename that effect after the man who invented it: the Musk-Dunning-Kruger effect

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[–] 4lan@lemmy.world 34 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I think it's more likely that he is looking for excuses for the years of delays on the cyber truck.

Now he can blame it on his "desire for perfection" instead of admitting that his timeline was never viable

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[–] anlumo@feddit.de 205 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Tesla should mill the car from one solid block of steel.

[–] SirQuackTheDuck@lemmy.world 48 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As a pedestrian and cyclist (aka Dutchman): fuck that noise

[–] Baahb@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)
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[–] uniqueid198x@lemmy.dbzer0.com 186 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

10 microns is .4 thou, about the width of a cotton fiber. Its possible to machine those tolerances, but very time consuming as machine maintainance steps up. Its also small enough that the thermal expansion of the sheets will be larger than that

[–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 87 points 1 year ago (4 children)

So basically elon would rather dump money into expensive equipment to improve build quality than do the thing that's actually needed to improve build quality and pay his workers what their work is worth and make their factory environment safer?

This is the kind of petty angry bullshit you have to do to be a billionaire. Its not about being smart, it's about on some level hating everyone that isn't you

[–] Red_October@lemmy.world 59 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Making a lot of assumptions about what he's willing to put into this.

He's not going to get fancy expensive new equipment, he's not going to hire the best machinists, he's not going to slow the work down to allow that kind of accuracy. He's going to bluster and shout and make demands without providing any way of actually achieving those demands. That's what Elon does. He's not an Engineer, he doesn't design things, he doesn't build things, he tells people who actually know what they're doing to build something. Here, he's just saying "Do better" without anything more, and expecting that to be enough because he doesn't actually know shit about dick.

Frankly the closest I've seen to evidence that Elon has ever actually designed anything is the eyesore that is the Cybertruck, because it absolutely looks like something that cretin would draw in crayon and demand be made a reality.

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[–] blargerer@kbin.social 38 points 1 year ago (3 children)

You aren't going to hit that tolerance consistently on an assembly line no matter how much you pay. Can be done by a skilled machinist, but there are too many dynamical variables in an assembly line environment, like the previously mentioned thermal expansion.

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[–] TenderfootGungi@lemmy.world 53 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Which just shows he has no idea how tolerances work. Small machined parts have different tolerances than large stamped parts. The key is setting the right tolerances for each part, designing the vehicle for desired gaps with those tolerances, and continuous improvement to fix and design out issues.

[–] uniqueid198x@lemmy.dbzer0.com 33 points 1 year ago

None at all. He also doesn't understend that the issues tesla has faced are largely due to poor process design rather than automotive design. The plans may call for small gaps ore big gaps, but they certainly don't call for iconsistent gaps

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[–] dmention7@lemm.ee 146 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If LEGO and soda cans, which are very low cost, can do this, so can we.

This man is a certifiable idiot, and I feel bad for anyone working for him.

[–] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I mean, to be fair, he's not entirely wrong, you can get that accuracy on larger parts given sufficient time, materials, tools, expertise, etc.

But a car has more parts than a Lego brick

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[–] Hazdaz@lemmy.world 110 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (32 children)

"All parts for this vehicle, whether internal or from suppliers, need to be designed and built to sub 10 micron accuracy.​"

LOL

Yeah ok.

Tell me you know nothing about manufacturing, without telling me you know nothing about manufacturing.

That one quote - assuming it is accurate - explains that Musk is even more of an idiot than everyone already knew he was. You don't make things at those tight tolerances. A couple of dimensions on a part might be (for instance the bore on a press fit sleeve), but you'd almost never, ever hold an entire part to that tight of a tolerance.

In imperial units, 10 microns is .00039". A human hair is roughly .001 to .005" thick. So he is asking for a tolerance that is 3 to 10x smaller than the thickness of a human hair. To put the absurdity of Musk's demand into perspective, most parts that go into a car are roughly an order of magnitude looser in tolerance with some dimensions being 2 orders of magnitude looser.

That difference might not sound like a lot, but holding something to +/-.0039 versus +/-.00039" could easily triple the price of an item or more. Easy. You use a tight tolerance only when you need to - that's engineering 101. Some parts could easily be +/- .039" and not affect their performance on bit. Close tolerance engine parts might be held at what Musk is demanding, but never "ALL PARTS" would be held to that.

[–] bhmnscmm@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Not to mention the fact all the tolerances should have been determined before mass production began. You determine the dimensional requirements and develop the manufacturing process to deliver that.

There is absolutely no way they have the systems and tools in place to properly measure every part with sub 10-micron accuracy and precision either. To control those dimensions you need to go a whole additional order of magnitude out. I pity the fool that has to manage that control plan.

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[–] Lianodel@ttrpg.network 87 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Due to the nature of Cybertruck, which is made of bright metal with mostly straight edges, any dimensional variation shows up like a sore thumb.​

It sounds to me like the reasonable conclusion to draw from this would be to modify the design of the car. I'd also assume you don't need tolerances to be the same for literally all parts inside and out. I'd also think that, if the car looks that bad if things are 10 or more microns out of place, these cars are going to age terribly after regular use.

But what do I know? If I were smart, I'd be rich, right? And Elon is so rich, he must be a genius!

[–] Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Tesla is know for shoddy panel alignment correct? This is gonna look horrific.

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[–] iamdisillusioned@lemmy.world 69 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

It's just marketing. Elon wants dumb tesla bros to think their truck is built to that accuracy. No need for it to be reality.

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[–] fubo@lemmy.world 68 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Cybertruck, Cybertruck,
Engineers say "what the fuck"
Micron fits for auto steel?
Those are not a thing that's real
So deal! Deal with it, Cybertruck.

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[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 62 points 1 year ago (35 children)

Why does Space Karen still have all his fanbois? Do they really think he's some kind of software/technology/business genius, even after all that has come out about him?

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[–] squaresinger@feddit.de 60 points 1 year ago (3 children)

In the full email he goes on to tell the engineer what a micron is.

I guess, he just read that word somewhere and now feels cool that he knows it.

It would be cute if he was a junior manager, but this way it's just sad.

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[–] nomecks@lemmy.world 59 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If Elon would have looked back, he would have seen that Delorean has already tried bare metal, and it's nearly impossible to fix. Dent your truck? May as well paint it.

I mean, Elon obviously doesn't care about repairability, but the first few fender benders will result in a pile of articles about how unfixable the body panels actually are.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago (2 children)

But at least John DeLorean didn't demand that the parts be accurate to within a few microns. Maybe he was too busy making cocaine deals to do it, but still...

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[–] Im14abeer@midwest.social 54 points 1 year ago

Elon gonna engineer the shit outta this thing. Nevermind coil steel itself varies by more than that before it goes into a die and stretches. It's almost like he doesn't have any background in automotive manufacturing. This statement makes me think Elon may not know what a micron even is. The fit and finish of Tesla's current offerings seems to evidence it anyway.

[–] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 51 points 1 year ago (3 children)

to build it to that accuracy the car would have to cost millions

[–] over_clox@lemmy.world 53 points 1 year ago (10 children)

To build it with that accuracy would be physically impossible. Guess he forgot about thermal expansion and contraction. Guess he forgot about the weather...

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[–] quadropiss@lemmy.world 50 points 1 year ago

Sounds like a pr campaign

[–] Raiderkev@lemmy.world 49 points 1 year ago (25 children)

Two things, not necessarily related.

  1. The cybertronk looks highly regarded when put together correctly. Imagine if it has the panel gaps of other cars TSLA makes.

  2. My tinfoil hat theory on why Elon is acting all right wing all of the sudden is to get those idiots to buy electric bare metal Pontiac Aztecs with "unbreakable" windows instead of F-150's

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[–] candyman337@sh.itjust.works 48 points 1 year ago

Hilarious considering the panel gaps in all his other cars, dude is fucking insane. Unattainable standards don't breed better work they breed exasperation and apathy.

[–] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 48 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They've had five years to figure that stuff out. If they haven't done it by now, they never will.

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[–] LEDZeppelin@lemmy.world 46 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Sure hun. Would you like that with a side of fries or mashed potatoes?

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[–] MargotRobbie@lemmy.world 45 points 1 year ago (9 children)

While holding this tight of a tolerance is standard for small sinple injection molded plastic part like Lego blocks (0.01mm tol. usually need some really good tooling though), it's not really possible to hold this tight of a tolerance for large sheet metal construction such as the Cybertruck body (Standard tolerance should probably be in the milimeter range at most. )

So, guess the Cybertruck is never coming out.

[–] squaresinger@feddit.de 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not a loss for humanity if that pedestrian killer doesn't come out.

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[–] agressivelyPassive@feddit.de 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I mean, just putting it into the sunlight will probably introduce larger variances than these tolerances from heat expansion alone.

And if dave holds a sheet slightly wrong, it's going to be slightly bent anyway.

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[–] Snapz@lemmy.world 43 points 1 year ago

"Bad news guys... We're gonna have to delay production for just TWO MORE YEARS because of these woke microns! The good news though, you can get re-premium upgraded waitlist VIP positioning with a renewal deposit of only $500"

[–] iforgotmyinstance@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Guarantee he has no understanding of metalwork. It's not tricky, it's an exact science.

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[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

That's an idea I would have supported when I was taking high school physics. My astronomy calculations I put to the nearest centimetre (something like 20 significant digits sometimes) for no good reason. Just writing down all the numbers from the calculator.

Then I took engineering and grew out of it. Sure some crucial parts need very tight tolerancing, but you also have to have it relative to the size of the part. And if your design is bad, better tolerancing isn't going to save you from stuff like the steering wheel popping out.

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[–] Sordid@lemmy.dbzer0.com 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

Wait, I thought he was just bullshitting his fans with that. He's actually serious? XD

Also, I don't understand what this has to do with bare metal construction of the Cybertruck and why that should present exceptional difficulties. DeLorean figured out how to make bare metal cars more than forty years ago, so it can't be that hard.

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[–] Grant_M@lemmy.ca 27 points 1 year ago

No amount of accuracy is going to fix the ugly of that thing.

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