What do you think, @Piecemakers3Dprints@lemmy.world?
If I feed an AI model ten thousand panels of Moebius art and the AI returns one panel based on them, then who is the creator? Feel free to discuss the legality (copyright) of this technology, who should get the royalties or the credit.
I guess it depends on the terms of service for the various AI tools? As in-- if you pay your service / subscription fee, then are you allowed to do whatever you want with the outputted art?
Good question about the credit. On the surface I'd think 'created by X using Y tool after the style of Z' seems fair & accurate, but what about people who try to play sneaky with that? Would it help if AI tools automatically included invisible but detectable traces in images to watermark their output?
Furthermore, what if a living artist publishes a book using AI generated art based on his own work. Is that acceptable? Should the artist disclose the AI use to the public?
Considering the reputational hit if they were 'found out,' I'd think most would want to be honest for their own good.
I know that a true connoisseur is likely to differentiate within the below images and the true work from Moebius, but for how long? We are at the verge of reaching a point where this differentiation will be impossible.
Right, that's my concern as well. These tools have been widely used for only the past year or two. It seems ludicrous to think that they're not going to keep improving.
They’ll be able to make a coherent comic page but what else are they bringing to the table beyond a degree of variation around a theme? They can never go “great idea, I saw this film once and wonder if something like this would work.” Then the writer takes the ball knocked back to them and adds another layer. AI can produce something that resembles this process but it can’t possibly get that spark that happens when two or more people are collaborating together as they might drag in something they heard on the bus, something random they saw while flicking channels an hour before, and on and on. --@Emperor@feddit.uk
I don't mind that argument, as romantic / hopeful as it might be, but it leaves out the scenario of: what if a decent writer and good prompt builder decides to use AI as the artist, with no second person necessary? They could merely have a good eye and feel for detail & aesthetic, and I think it would be enough, combined with their own quality writing, to build a complete graphic novel, or at least something pretty close to that, currently.
All of that of course becoming easier with time as the tools improve, as well as their own facility with such tools.
Why would we not expect to see output like that in coming years?
Thanks for the link. Data obfuscation seems like a noble effort, altho way too easy to work around in the end. Or maybe that's just my cynical take, haha.
I like your idea of an artist using a self-generative type of AI to create custom art. I *think*. I mean, I'm still not very happy about the whole situation, but your idea makes the most sense to me. Far better than the current situation, anyway.
I am not worried about that, just think of music made with acoustic instruments, vinyl records, analog tube guitar amplifiers and so on. The good stuff usually stays around no matter what new stuff gets invented, sure a technology might lose it’s cultural dominance but will stay state of the art for the connoisseurs and often some time after that, when people get tired with the new stuff, it even has a mainstream revival.
You're probably right. I think I just wanted to bitch and moan, today! >(
Bro did AI art before it was cool
AI made pictures
Honestly, that hurts. This guy started coming up with this excellent stuff in the 70's, and now it's just 'AI imitation' stuff..?
You guys DO know the story about the chicken and the egg, right?
@Nacktmull@lemm.ee Bonsoir, mssr! I had a problem seeing the response beyond the one you wrote (example), but I'll go ahead and answer what I can see:
- Is writing a prompt for an AI a form of art?
I'm sorry, but unless it's a Steven Hawking-level prompt, it's quite challenging for me to truly consider the result "art." Sorry, let me amend that-- unless it's barely 1% of what Hawking might have come up with for a prompt, which would quite possibly have still been WAY more interesting than whatever the AI models pumped out. Heh.
- Is the resulting image a creation of the person who wrote the prompt, the people who developed the AI, the artists whose works the AI was trained on (often without those artists consent), or the AI itself?
Well for me, the trained art of the original artists exist on a plateau high... high above the coding gurus. Further down, in the smelly muck, exist the wretched prompt-generators. It's almost like a scenario from Dante's Inferno, lol.
That said-- I feel like the writing is on the dang'ol wall. I.e., my view is becoming antiquated, and the younger gen and new AI are increasingly tossing the views of us 'old fuddy-duddies' out to the curb. :-(
This particular image has not been hosted on lemm.ee before, as I’m the one who uploaded it to pixelfed.social
I'm guessing that means you're also the image creator, otherwise you wouldn't be sure nobody had uploaded it here before, right?
In any case, my first thought would be to try to do a test, replicating the event to see if the same thing happens again. Unfortunately, it looks like pixelfed.social is closed to new accts, so I suppose it would need to be someone already with an acct there. Feel like giving that a whack?
If so, there's a junk community here that would make for a good testing ground. I just whipped up a test image with the same dimensions as yours, and right about the same size here.
if it's not convenient for you to do a test at this time, maybe you could clue me in as to how to make a pixelfed.social acct?
Thanks, interesting. I'm not sure what's happening, but it also seems to be hosted right here, scaled down 50k: https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/5fdd577a-609b-409c-8811-ff59a0443f1b.webp
Unless that's a disguised redirect link, I'm wondering if the server somehow mistakenly hosted it here. Or possibly the image was already hosted on Lemm.ee, and the server software decided to list the match link rather than the new one you provided.
If it sounds like I'm trying to make something out of nothing, I'm just concerned that there might be an image loophole attackers might use, as with what happened to Lemmy.World some weeks back.
I am all for mixing in different kinds of artists and I really like the idea of a primarily comic art focused community that is also open to other forms of art, especially when there is some connection to comics.
I feel that way too. And you know, little by little I've been trying to refine the sidebar text to make it less wordy and more clearer of purpose, and one of the changes was to point out that art was welcome, too, along the lines you just mentioned.
HR Giger had such a strong impact on Monster design in all kinds of sci-fi and fantasy. His impact goes far beyond the Alien movies and comic books.
Interesting. I hadn't really thought about or noticed that too much, but I may not have been looking at good examples of such. Really, it would be almost impossible for his work not to have been widely influential, tho.
May I ask how you came up with this?
In the little bar of mini-icons above the comment space, the one on the right, "formatting help," takes you to this page. ( I linked that specifically because IIRC when one hits that button directly, one's unposted comment text gets wiped out :/ )
[](https://i.imgur.com/YuUI5Vu.jpeg)
Btw, the above code is also useful, as it lets a user pop out an image to see greater detail, as opposed to zooming in. And a little tip-- when in doubt as to how a user did something interesting in their post / comment, you can go to the three little dots (bottom right) and select the "view source" button.
I'll continue with the AI talk and sketch link in a PM. In the meanwhile, some food for thought is right here in our community, in which I debated a very big fan of AI art across a few comments:
Funny stuff, and whoa... the image is hosted at Lemm.ee??
That got disabled over a month ago AFAIK, and is still listed as such on the sidebar.
Oh, Giger, right! And he's Swiss, so hopefully we can have a post(s) about his work here one day. Btw, have you tried this code to post images in comments?
You know I once did a little sketch of what a Giger piece might look like if rendered in wood. I'll PM you a page of my sketches if you're interested.
Btw, the issue of AI stuff has been a bit of a head-scratcher for me. I have a few watercolor / ligne claire-type pieces that I was thinking of posting, but various factors kind of hold me back..
Any opinion on the issues OP raises? For example:
For publishing purposes, who owns the resultant AI art, and how should it properly get credited?
As AI art tools continue to improve, will it eventually (read: within only a couple years) be possible to tell real Moebius art versus AI-generated Moebius art? (see examples above)
Do you agree with me that a good writer and prompt-maker could entirely replace an artist in producing a finished, quality graphic novel right now? Even if you say "no," do you feel like there's any force preventing that from happening down the road?