kofe

Technically that's not good for the goldfish 🥴 they grow to the size of smaller tanks then it stresses their bodies to not be able to keep going to their natural size. I'd have to look it up what the recommended tank size is but hope folks look it up before getting one!

Yep. I use that with the AI component sometimes

Too often people don't read past the headline or even have their algorithm trained to consistently give dis/misinformation. I don't see criticism of a tool, but rather how has developed and is used. This applies in so many areas that I think the more effective approach is teaching people how to think more critically and criticizing the companies for not doing their due diligence in promoting that. Otherwise it comes across like being upset people use social media, in which case I think we are far too beyond the Pandoras box being opened to spend time focusing on that aspect. If you have solutions other than telling people not to use it, I'm all ears.

I don't think it's about conversion. I see it as keeping those already born and entrenched having it normalized as part of a "christian nation" to further prevent critical thinking.

Yeah, we have to draw from presuppositions somewhere no matter what. I presuppose that you are a separate agent from me, aware of your own existence and all that, but I can't definitively prove it. Can you describe what the distinction is for you that makes us "more" than "just" animals?

I mean. Again. We're pattern seeking creatures that like having answers. We developed a method that updates based on new information, replication and peer review. I provided one hypothesis that I'm not even wedded to. I just think its an interesting idea. If you have alternative explanations or ideas I'm open to them, whether they can be tested or not. It's just my preferred method since it's more likely to provide meaningful results in my day to day life.

Again though, science is a tool. I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that "science would say [spirituality is] useless."

Also yes, there are studies showing some respond positively. Not everyone. I turned to atheism after decades of screaming to a god that I've determined doesn't exist to help me — so yeah, it's useless and was even negative in effect for me. But there are hypotheses that holding affirmative beliefs on it has been an evolutionary trait passed down to help the species survive, because we like having answers and what happens after death can't be answered. Which goes to your point about how we can't necessarily find evidence for everything we might have questions on. If we can't find answers we may make things up to quell the discomfort the lack of one can bring to maintain reason to keep living.

Yoo I've been all up in this thread recommending them. Last I checked they use REBT, which is a kind of precursor to CBT. I didn't find it the most effective, but I joined a DBT skills group and am making my way through a year long program for that and have found it very helpful. I'm trying to address a lot more than substance abuse, though. Its considered more gold standard treatment for chronic suicidality or people struggling with borderline personality.

I've already mentioned this in another comment, but SMART Recovery is a secular alternative that does host virtual sessions if anyone's looking and can't find something local. They're pretty well established in multiple countries now. They've also got the website and mobile app with evidence based skills. DBT also has skills targeting addiction. The main reason I think AA can be effective (though its less than a coin flip chance iirc) is due to the community aspect.

I'm confused what you're saying science would say is useless. Having meaning? Cuz that's well supported in psychology. There are many ways to develop meaning in our lives. Science is just a method that helps us figure out what is effective. Spirituality can be effective in helping to form meaning, sure, but people need alternatives if or when it fails.

Having community support to hold each other accountable is a massive barrier for many people struggling with addiction. The term codependency was coined in addiction recovery research — not in the way its often colloquially used, though. People dependent on substances very likely have someone that is codependent around them enabling that addiction. Some programs like SMART Recovery specifically host separate meetings for family and friends of people seeking treatment to break down those dynamics.

For some, AA is the only option out there, but I do suggest people looking for secular options to check out SMART Recovery. They have workbooks and a mobile app that include evidence based skills, but if someone's in need of an in-person community and doesn't have any alternatives around them, I think it's reasonable to support them in going to AA, if only to check it out and see what the particular groups are like. Another commenter in this thread (BanMe) shared their experience in finding a group that was filled with atheists, so, they're not all submitting to Jesus

Also want to throw out there for anyone curious about specific skills, DBT also has quite a few centered around distress tolerance, mindfulness and emotional regulation. They're helpful in quite a few areas outside of addiction, but DBT is considered like gold standard treatment for people with chronic suicidality. It's not effective for everyone, though. There's no one model that will work for everyone. Treatment for mental health, substance abuse included, is highly individualized and has many factors in how each model might be effective or not.