lennybird

I have them tagged as a Jill Stein wedge driver. They're a bit salty.

Everyone should take FDD with a MASSIVE grain of salt. It's a far-right neoconservative think-tank.

Edit: polling looks legit. I'll review more closely.

That he thought got 'em in that video and decided to post it is absolutely hilarious.

"mUh rEgImE!"

Hey man, if you're not going give a source why can't you just give me some more funny memes at least.

If I'm not your audience like 30 replies deep, who is? Lmao? The one other tankie cheering you on? Preaching to the choir?

Bro, you're the one wasting your time.

I'm here all night.

Hmm... Okay, Quixote.

Nah this is easy. Just snacking and bullshitting while having a few laughs.

Still no source, I see :)

Cool memes, kid. Projecting again, I see.

But alright, buddy sure, just don't forget to film it. I'll be really shocked to see you do anything more than memes and tilting at windmills.

(still haven't found a source, I see)

K weirdo.

Oh no! Your pissing into the wind and tilting at windmills from your computer chair is really fighting the good fight, buddy! I'm sure you're totally punching nazis you total badass, you ;)

Only because not enough people punch them. The fear that they instill in others should be instilled in them. Every time they say some shit they should be thinking “will this get me punched if i say this right now?” Every time.

You're probably not familiar with the fact that ProPublica uncovered that right-wing extremist groups both want to incite a race war and they want to see an armed left to both muddy the waters and instigate further violence. They in effect want to bait the left into more preemptive violence because then their BoTh SiDes rhetoric only gets stronger with the apathetic fence sitters.

All this fucking time and all this bluster about punching nazis, and nobody can cite one fucking study or indicator showing that it is actually effective and not incredibly backfiring. You think these fuckers will just sit down quietly? No, they'll increase their recruitment numbers by targeting the likes of the insecure, then point to these videos about showing how these people don't even respect their own laws of their land, so why should they? Then they'll simply continue dehumanizing both you and any other minority group to these gullible suckers, their ranks will rise, and some dipshit will become radicalized and because YOU allegedly punched a nazi, some other dude just went over the breaking-point and decided to shoot up some innocent people. If you're not going to bring sources, then we're all juts speculating and I wager I'm far closer to reality.

Besides, in what realm do you live in that you think you're going to be able to identify nazis outright by obvious tattoos. Yeah, I'm sure you're going to bust into a dive bar in Mississippi and raise hell. The vast majority of these modern nazis have learned that the power of anonymity and blending in is far more useful.

So let's just cut the shit with the IAmVeryBadass punch-a-nazi trope, and sure, you're right... Forget arguing with them online; yes, just cede ground to them — I'm sure that'll do wonders. But hey, yes, go door knocking instead of fist-punching. Whatever is actually productive at preventing fascists from taking over because we sure as shit know there is zero evidence to support preemptive violence against these groups you perceive to be irredeemable nazis.

And if you don't like the laws, then fucking do something and change the laws. But shouting about punching nazis on an online forum is the equivalent of shouting at clouds and pissing in the wind. In a way you prove my point, though: we changed many of those laws. We evolved as a society and we clamped down on a lot of fucked up shit. And despite our grievances today, the reason we're seeing such a backlash from these right-wing extremists is because for the first time in recent history they are actually becoming marginalized from their stranglehold of power from which they once governed behind a thinly-veiled "good Christian" narrative. The rat is backed into the corner and they're lashing out for fear of their diminished position in society. These are growing pains and we're working through them.

But the path to violence will muddy the waters for the dumb fucks in the middle who are so easily duped by their recruitment propaganda in the first place, so naturally you must appeal to the lowest common denominator in society

Okay so I shouldn’t feed the homeless because the end goal is to fix homelessness and poverty and that requires systemic change? Fixing fascism requires systemic change but in the meantime we need to make them fear spreading their ideas. Fixing homelessness/hunger requires systemic change but in the meantime we should feed the homeless.

I'll make a point here to say that I'm not trying to say your feeding the homeless is a bad thing. With respect to addressing symptoms versus root causes, I agree with you. But if feeding the homeless actually led to more homelessness, you wouldn't be doing it, correct? Just as we all thought feeding ducks was so nice but it turns out that's the last thing you're supposed to do. Now this doesn't directly apply to the homeless, but it does directly apply to punching nazis.

Look man, we're all on the same side here generally. I'm not here to defend nazis and I hope you see that. I'm trying to just say to consider an alternative avenue for passion because I don't want you in prison for a felony charge while quite possibly just increasing nazi recruitment when you could've been out doing something far more substantive like door-knocking for Harris instead.

As for teaching kids, I guess to each their own. Words only have power if you give them power. I'm not going to let my kid be baited into felony charges because some dipshit easily baited them into throwing the first punch simply because they said some words that says more about them than it does my kid.

And that's about all I have left in the tank for this conversation. Back to my kids.

Pot, meet kettle. What if I told you that you're engaging in just as much gish gallopping straw-man discourse as you misconstrue my own arguments all the same? Seems quite clear, but I'm sure you'll just conveniently cast aside any rebuttal as more straw-man. Convenient.

• No, I didn't say we can always legislate the problem away — I merely said punching a Nazis isn't proven to be a better solution

• No, I didn't say that debating JD vance will stop bomb threats (weird tangential straw-man) — I merely said that punching nazis isn't proven to be a better solution.

These are, in fact, demonstrable straw-men to my arguments. (Say, how about we grow up and skip the whole straw-men deflective tropes?)

Ultimately: You Still. Haven't. Provided. A Single. Modicum. Of Evidence. That Punching Nazis. Reduces Nazis. That's it. Nothing more

Also, it's incredibly interesting that suddenly you're trying to shy away from the notion of punching a nazi isn't preemptive. Quite intriguing. If you actually believed this, then we wouldn't even have much issue.

I think it's really interesting you claim yourself to be an expert on this matter of fascism while exclaiming I am not; tell me, what are your credentials? What makes you think that? I'm not seeing any groundbreaking counter-arguments being presented here. I'm not seeing a single piece of evidence proving your case that "Punch a Nazi" is wise.

Fascists and Nazis start off as weird outsiders that find solace and comfort in male power fantasy. You want to get rid of fascists? Get rid of the systemic forces that breed them, wealth inequality, underfunded education, dwindling employment and low pay.

I don't disagree with this.

But once they’re a fucking Nazi all they understand is Nazi shit.

There are literal organizations for people who've been duped by this shit and got out run by the very guys who got out of it.. The problem is your claim is just not true. Once you're Nazi, it doesn't mean you're always a Nazi. But do yourself a favor and ask the founder of that organization what he thinks of the Punch a Nazi movement and whether it's effective. Considering they once were one, they probably have a bit more insight, don't you think? I'll wait.

Like I get it, I hate the scum too. From Boogaloo to Proud Boys to Oathkeepers to 1%ers to the base and so on... These people, uh, let's just say aren't deep thinkers. Yes, there are fuckwits across the globe from Russia to Germany. Yet there is a method to off-ramp these people from their path of radicalization, and I have yet to see any evidence that this "Punch a Nazi" thing reduces their numbers and doesn't actually increase recruitment. The key is indeed making a more compelling case both to the fence sitters, as well as sincerely reaching out.

Anyways, interesting conversation. Life and kids call and I think we've exhausted the points we both wanted to make.

It would be a pretty easy argumentative strategy to simply accuse everything as being a straw-man when your arguments are repeatedly, consistently undermined by both facts and sources. At this point, I feel like I'm having a discussion with a Trump supporter the hop-scotch deflection is so profound.

I explained in detail that I know the phrase and its history better than you; that you haven't evinced a cogent counterargument is not my problem.

Notice: I am STILL waiting for any semblance of evidence that "Punching a nazi," actually reduces radicalization in any way. Several comments and nothing.

So in the meantime and until you actually produce said evidence, if you want to stop fascists then just get off your computer and go ask your local Democratic campaign what you can do to stop Trump. $10 they won't say, "Punch a nazi" is the most effective use of your time. After all, you don't want to be a convicted felon prior to November, do you?

I do however mock and deride language where a nazi or fascist might hide. Much like your defense of a Nazis’ right to exist.

Now that is a straw-man; and unlike you, I will actually back up the reason why: I never defended Nazi's right to exist; to the contrary and on the record, I'd much rather they not exist — but since at least me and the other user have established that we aren't going to utilize genocide to get to that point, let alone exclaim that justifies their actions, then we need put our little thinking caps on and figure out more constructive ways at deprogramming them. I'm betting you didn't even watch that Ted talk, did you? Finally, I don't mind mockery; I mind preemptive physical violence. Therein lies the difference.

Don't get me wrong, I know they won't afford me the same benefit of the doubt. It just hasn't yet been evidenced to me that punching nazis actually creates less and not more. So I find it kind of amusing I get these unsubstantiated claims of straw-men despite one's own massive amount of deflection to my points.

You really want to stop the nazis? Quit the IAmVeryBadass bullshit about punching nazis — instead, get off your ass and go punch on doors by canvassing and getting out the vote. Your time will be better served than this romanticizing of punching a nazi online when you'll never do it anyway.