Games
Welcome to the largest gaming community on Lemmy! Discussion for all kinds of games. Video games, tabletop games, card games etc.
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This community is focused on games, of all kinds. Any news item or discussion should be related to gaming in some way.
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Video games
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- !gaming@Lemmy.world: Our sister community, focused on PC and console gaming. Meme are allowed.
- !photomode@feddit.uk: For all your screenshots needs, to share your love for games graphics.
- !vgmusic@lemmy.world: A community to share your love for video games music
- !freegames@feddit.uk: A community sharing free games giveaways.
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Language specific
- !JeuxVideo@jlai.lu: French
view the rest of the comments
I like Valve but stfu dude.
Physical discs was the only thing that was a plus side of consoles compared to PC gaming (you could trade and resell it).
This is so clearly a company employee portraying a certain sentiment that the company stands to profit from and acting like that is what consumers chose.
Sony, chose this. I didn't chose this. And valve knows that now 30- 40% or better of PlayStation players will be making their way over to them in the next 5 years with this very sentiment of "oh well its what consumers chose"
I know it wasn't the company of valve that said this and just an employee but still fuck this dudes opinion on the topic. Of course he shills for the end of discs that was the only thing that set consoles apart from Steam.
I disagree. The main selling point of a console is not the physical media. There are consoles out there that do not even have that feature. It's the convenience of buying a console once and then knowing everything will run fine. No tinkering, just start it up with your controller and game.
People have fast Internet connections nowadays and can just buy it online and download. You probably have patches to download anyway. It might be even more convenient because you don't have to go to the store or insert the disk to play. I don't think people are sharing games that much anymore.
I think the average guy does not care. There might be some complaints at first like with the iPhone dropping the headphone jack, but then people are just gonna be fine with it. Consoles are not going anywhere. They are the iPhones of gaming, small selection but great optimization for that specific hardware.
Really now the price point is the main thing because any game can be ran very easily with steam forums and reading like two comments for problematic games.
Console is still plug and play sort of when it comes to games just working but any game can be ran PC trivially. Although console is a lot smoother to wake up and just start gaming in seconds PC has to boot and all that unless in sleep mode which isn't always consistent
The quality, tone, and tenor of this entire debate says FAR more about the type of people who want to talk about video games on the internet than it says about the ethics of corporations, creators, or the video game industry...
I was hoping that Lemmy game communities may be better than Reddit, but it seems like the same old circle-jerk...
What does it say?
That people are getting tired of companies bleeding them dry for every single thing in every way that they possibly can?
You expected a website primarily full of people who hate greediness and billionaires in general to not have anything to say about a decision that is anti consumer?
The cool thing about communities is that you can find all kinds of people who agree with your viewpoint. You could make your own with the 5 other people that feel the way you do on this topic and get the conversations you were hoping for.
Some facts:
It is wild how much gaming has grown.
But none of that means you can't still produce disks especially if all that growth equates to more profit overall.
What if you just don't want to? Can you provide any other examples where artists or creators are LEGALLY COMPELLED to produce art on a specific medium or under a specific distribution/licensing scheme? Because that is what is being suggested by many who oppose the move to digital.
Imagine you were a photographer who works exclusively in digital art, and the courts rule that you cannot continue to sell digital art unless you also maintain a physical darkroom and also offer physical prints of your art. Would that seem reasonable?
"I don't agree to the terms of your storefront and I won't sell it there"
Also, many games release on PlayStation and Xbox that are digital only and have no discs. This has existed since PS3.
Do you know how many exclusives are only on Steam?
Same way with gog's DRM free stance which is why people get upset they don't have every single game that comes out, its the publishers choice.
The freedom to make that choice is important.
For what you described to have any merit you would have to force companies to sell their games on all gaming storefronts which will never happen and shouldn't because that is anti consumer and anti business all at the same time.
Same way with Denuvo. If a company wants that shit in their game they can do that and I can choose not to buy it until they remove it. But no one should ever try to force that across the board.
It would be different if PlayStation and Xbox had always been digital but they haven't. They are taking a consumer choice and right (reselling a disc) away by this decision. That's why people are pissed.
The ability to release your game only digitally with no disc has ALWAYS existed.
And no your imagined fantasy scenario of the photographer would not be right.
I am starting to think maybe you are saying PlayStation shouldn't be forced to make discs and the fact is that they ARENT digital only has always existed and they just said they are stopping making discs with no court cases or forcing their hand and it will stay that way they get to do whatever they want.
Thing is, people who have been with them since 1994 have a right to be pissed off about an anti consumer move like this.
If my wife fucks another dude at the bar I'm going to bitch about it very vocally so she knows I'm unhappy and leave her. That's kind of like this. You have a right to do something and people have a right to react the way they want to about it short of violence.
Sony has a right not to produce discs but I also have the right to call out that greedy decision for what it is and never buy from them again. No one is forcing publishers to do shit and they never have.
I would not agree with some sort of law that FORCES Sony to keep making discs but I would agree with their customers bitching enough about it that they choose to change course.
If they decide not to I'll just decide not to use them anymore. As someone who owns over 500 games on PlayStation though I absolutely have the right to call them out on their bullshit a spade is a spade and Sony is a greedy anti consumer company at this point. Used to love them.
You NEVER owned the game, only the media. See my other response about the legal EULA that have been included with every game you have ever purchased. Studios and publishers have no moral or legal duty to sell you a piece of plastic.
If you disagree philosophically, don't buy games from studios and publishers who don't distribute physical media...
However unhappy you are about this decision, it does NOT give you the legal or moral authority to DEMAND that an artist create art in the medium of your choice. I suspect the only reason that this vocal minority is kicking up a fuss is because they realize that the industry doesn't care, because they can still thrive without your business.
No one is going to hold the entire industry back because you and a miniscule minority are too cheap, or afraid to move forward.
Ok not owning that games intellectual property affected my ability to choose and resell a disc in what way?
You are thinking that I seem to think when I buy a disc that I OWN this game. I can make copies, I can make a sequal, I can fucking get a percentage of sales from it.
No dude. I could RESELL the license that existed on that disc that couldn't be revoked.
Do you understand that? I feel like you are not understanding what I am saying here seriously.
Also I just said I didn't want anyone to demand or legally force them to do that is English not your first language or something?
Discs have existed since ps1 and digital only editions of PlayStation games have existed since PS3 no one is forcing shit.
People are rightfully calling Sony anti consumer for this move and upset that a gaming company they used to love would screw their customers like this.
I am not saying they should be legally required to do shit and they won't be. Sony can do whatever it wants but the customers who have been with them for years can call them out on it being bullshit too.
I guess I just don't understand your point then, so lets walk through it and see if you can state a definitive point.
Call them out all you want, but can you at least acknowledge that your opinion is a minority opinion?
"I was hoping Lemmy gaming communities would be better than reddit"
Seems like YOU are the minority opinion, eh?
And yes, just like I said before digital only options have always been up to the publisher. Hundreds of games get released on PlayStation without a disc version. No one is forcing shit.
Also my point that you seem to be intentionally missing is that if you buy a game license digitally you get to have it taken away when the company decides they want to and can't resell it
When you buy it on disc they have to come and pry it out of your dead cold hands before they can make you stop playing it.
Again since I know you really want this all to not be true, online only games are different. I have always referred to single player games when talking about discs in these comments
I have no problem with this. Such is the ephemeral nature of art. If my enjoyment comes from that act of possession and not experience then I should probably collect Funko Pops and not video games.
Yes and that's why your opinion is minority.
A medium exists right now to avoid that kind of corporate fuckery and its physical discs. Which is why people are upset about it.
When I buy a licesne devs and publishers got paid. No one should be able to take that away from me and once they do I always pirate it so I can keep it forever. I fucking BOUGHT it. (A LICENSE YOU DON'T OWN!!! yes yes you have said).
It would be different if they let you rent it. They don't want to do that though huh? Why? Its a license either way. The answer is greedy fucks in suits. Not the devs that work their asses off on these games.
They would rightfully get fucking grilled trying to rent something for $70 but that's exactly what they do with digital only purchases.
Steam let's me still download games that get delisted that I legally purchased a license for. Is that wrong of steam? Should they be legally forced to not do that?
I can tell you worked with the console companies before like you alluded to in your other comment, because this kind of anti consumer line of thinking they reward and are known for.
Facts don't support that assessment.
There are an estimated 3,700,000,000 people on earth who regularly play video games.
What you are experiencing is combination of false consensus and confirmation bias.
How do you have the authority to know that my opinion is minority opinion, then?
"It isn't ME that's wrong, its Lemmy, reddit, twitter, PlayStation blog, Facebook, etc. Was hoping [insert community here] would be different"
I know that the majority of PlayStation gamers don't support this because they deleted the PlayStation blogpost that they announced this on because of all the backlash. They've been community noted on every tweet they've put out since for their anti consumer bs.
Community notes on twitter are majority opinion at least on that platform.
How many people do you think there are online complaining about this? 1,000,000? 10,000,000?
Let's be unreasonably generous and say that 100,000,000 people are online right now, incensed by this move! That's 2.7% of gamers.
At least TRY and put your opinions into some kind of perspective before acting like they are universal truths...
Wll I mean if we're just going off the perspectives being offered online the ONLY person I've seen defend this is you, who worked with console companies in the past.
On the other hand even entire development and retail companies with huge skin in the game like Nippon Ichi Software, Atari, Iam8bit, and the Entertainment Retailers Association have voiced that they are against this.
Wanna know what's even better? Sony did this without telling a single one of their partners they were going to do this. And you trust them to make the right moves with the things I buy from them? They don't even respect their fucking publishers and retail partners.
So far only companies I can find FOR this decision are the ones you have worked for which, color me shocked, think that they are making the right decision!
There is no right or wrong decision... still lost on the concept of subjectivity eh?
Yes there is. The wrong decision is the one that is anti consumer as Sony will learn in the following years after this is implemented.
So you speak for all 3,700,000,000 gamers? So confident.
Yes. I speak for every industry in the entire world that being anti consumer is the wrong decision.
Maybe not short term which you seem to have trouble thinking past, but long term yes.
You speak for all console gamers when you say physical ownership doesn't matter, or just the console companies you used to work with/for?
Also, you seem to not understand that a companies decisions doesn't have to be based off what people want. If it did, there wouldn't be any anti consumer decisions ever because by its very definition anti consumer is against the consumer.
Also, last I checked all 3.7gorillian gamers don't all play on PlayStation
There's really no in continuing any discussion if you truly believe it's not possible for other consumers to have different values, opinions, or perspectives than you do.
No one will ever be able to reason you out of an opinion you arrived at through unreasonable means.
Are you unable to comprehend that anti consumer means against the consumer?
By its very definition it is not what consumers want.
Or it would be called, PRO consumer.
You aren't a consumer only you also work for these people. Color me shocked you hold anti consumer opinions.
Are you unable to comprehend that you are not the model consumer that all definitions should be based on?
As you pointed out, I am also a consumer. I prefer digital media and think the abandonment of physical media cannot come soon enough. We already have enough microplastic, we don't need more.
Which would be awesome if PlayStation made pro consumer choices like Valve does letting you keep downloading copies you paid for. But since they don't, them taking away the only way that existed for them not to fuck you over is anti consumer.
I think I misunderstood that you were saying its not right or wrong based off the opinion of gamers. When I say I am speaking for all gamers and all industries, I'm talking about anti consumer practices (like taking back copies of movies and games you pay for like they just did last month and willnextmonth again for ps3) being not good for gaming.
Individual gamers will vary on opinion of that. Doesn't change that it is objectively an anti consumer move for Sony to be making.
Also if you really are against microplastics stop sucking the dick of companies and saying its ok for them to take back copies from you that you bought like you did in other comments.
If they would still let you download stuff you bought like steam does already, then no one would be upset about discs.
They are upset it because Sony has a proven track record of taking stuff away and not lettih you download it anymore, unlike more pro consumer companies like Steam that don't do shit like that.
I don't care if games disappear. If the studio who owns the IP doesn't want to pay to have it hosted any more that's ok by me, its their choice. Steam absorbs the cost because they absolutely hose studios on their publishing agreements...
They take the same 30% that PlayStation, Xbox, and GOG take.
So if they can afford it so can PlayStation.
Its not the studio who hosts it its the PS store and steam and Xbox who run the download servers.
And again, it isn't the publisher that chooses to take a copy you own or they would tell Steam to stop. It is the store that you bought it on that chooses to do that. PlayStation and Xbox choose to do that, steam doesn't which is why no one ever raised hell about steam having non physical (minus like, two or 3 games they made long ago) because they know when they buy it on steam they can download it forever or at least until Gabe dies.
If you are really for the end of micropladtics you should be supporting pro consumer choices that make people WANT digital, just like steam is doing. Not the ability to take something away you bought at a whim like Sony does all the time.
No. Steam elects to absorb the lifetime hosting costs and builds a perpetual license into the publishing deal.
All Sony and MS licensing deals are time bound and the developer/publisher is responsible for hosting costs. When the publisher doesn't want to pay anymore, the title gets taken down.
Just googled it and no, they don't do that.
Do you have a source for that? Sony says they take 30% cut. You pay via revenue share of a cut of game sales and not recurring maintenance costs.
So nope. Sony being anti consumer isn't because of their licensing agreement here. They take the same exact split that steam does for the same reasons. They don't pay for download hosting on the PS store or steam store except for that 30% revenue split.
Which highlights again why people are pissed. It isn't about the discs really, its about Sony fucking people and taking what they bought away with a proven track record of doing just that. The discs were just the only way to prevent them from doing that.
"Trust me bro, I googled it!"
And what happens when the developer/publishers licenses (middleware, brands/teams, music, etc) expire?
Provide the source for your claims and prove me wrong.
No? Ah. Didn't think so.
Sorry, can't, NDA.
You can't lookup Sony's terms and conditions for publishers on their website like I just did?
You're so full of shit I can smell you from here.
Can't accept when you're wrong huh?
Again... You don't work in the industry, you don't know anyone who works in the industry... You're just talking out your ass on the internet.
If you want to fight for justice, pick up brick and go fuck up one of your local Nazis...
Whining about video games on the internet doesn't make you brave, it makes you simple.
Sources or shut the fuck up.
You work for these people it doesn't make you brave defending your masters.
It makes me right that you can't even prove what you say true, though.
You should be upset more about it.
Sure it does. If you truly thought you were right you would disengage...
Sources or shut the fuck up.
Back up what you say and prove yourself.
I owe your rage nothing...
Expect no further replies, continued harassment will be reported.