Lefty Memes
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of "ML" (read: Dengist) influence. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, discussion and agitprop/stuff that's better fit for a poster than a meme go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme. Please post agitprop here)
0.5 [Provisional Rule] Try to use alt text or image descriptions to allow for greater accessibility
(Please take a look at our wiki page for the guidelines on how to actually write alternative text!)
We encourage alternative text (from now referred to as "alt text") to be added to all posts/comments containing media, such as images, animated GIFs, videos, audio files, and custom emojis.
EDIT: For files you share in the comments, a simple summary should be enough if they’re too complex.
We are committed to social equity and to reducing barriers of entry, including (digital) communication and culture. It takes each of us only a few moments to make a whole world of content (more) accessible to a bunch of folks.
When alt text is absent, a reminder will be issued. If you don't add the missing alt text within 48 hours, the post will be removed. No hard feelings.
0.5.1 Style tip about abbreviations and short forms
When writing stuff like "lol" and "iirc", it's a good idea to try and replace those with their all caps counterpart
- ofc => OFC
- af = AF
- ok => OK
- lol => LOL
- bc => BC
- bs => BS
- iirc => IIRC
- cia => CIA
- nato => Nato (you don't spell it when talking, right?)
- usa => USA
- prc => PRC
- etc.
Why? Because otherwise (AFAIK), screen readers will try to read them out as actually words instead of spelling them
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such
That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" (read: Dengists) (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
6. Don't irrationally idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
- Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Sexual assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
view the rest of the comments
Nothing wrong with communists. I feel so radicalized by capitalism I'm almost there anyway.
It's the Russian/China apologists that are annoying.
Russia is bad, Chia.na is bad, and the U.S. is bad. All those things can be true. But all the insufferable posts about how great China and Russia are, and all the bad things you have heard about them m are just Western propaganda...
If they were serious about their ideology, then why do they care so much about someone thinks about China or Russia.
If they didn't brigade those issues so much, straight up ban people, just because they disagree, or hlrefuse to have any real discussion that doesn't center on just shutting other people down, then maybe people outside their group might take them more seriously.
here’s the neat part: anyone who unironically thinks china or russia are communist is a dumbass and can be ignored or is trolling.
China and russia being communist is an American right wing talking point.
No leftists consider the russian federation communist, and not even the cpc considers china communist. They claim to be attempting to realise communism by first developing socialism to the point that they can.
Whether you believe them or not aside, you're sort of showing your ignorance. Even the scary tankies on hexbear and ml or whatever don't think they're communist. That's why the term actually existing socialism (aes) is aes and not aec.
i made no indication i believed them or them to be communist. i was speaking of how trollish those who claim china/russia is communist are. they’re almost always “libertarians” or some form of boomer.
tl;dr of my response: China ain't Socialist, and shouldn't be emulated in our struggle for socialist revolution worldwide.
Many leftists don't consider China and the CPC to even be socialist, many socialists around the world see the CPC as a ruling class of another capitalist country, albeit with much higher rates of nationalised industries.
We think you can't really call yourself socialist when the workers don't have meaningful democratic control over society. And unless you're being dishonest or are just misinformed, the workers most certainly don't have control of society in China. Less so then here (Australia), even.
One only need to talk to people in China to realise this, most people I've spoken to in China, even though who support the government, describe a very hierarchical benevolent government.
One simply can't look a lefty in the eye and say China is socialist, unless those "Chinese Characteristics" suffixed to "Socialism" simply stand for "without democracy".
There is no meaningful method to agitate for political change (no, being in one of the other parties most certainly doesn't count), there are no workers unions (strikes are heavily repressed and the only union that exists is controlled by the CPC, though despite that some groups of workers still sometimes bravely strike 💪) no freedom of political association, no democracy in the workplace.
It's really hard to claim China is socialist, yet people outside of China still do, just because they're holding the banner of socialism...
I don't hate China, it's a pretty nice place, with lovely people, and certainly a nicer place than the shithole of the US. I've been to China multiple times, and you wouldn't catch me dead in the US.
But they just ain't Socialist, and shouldn't be emulated in our struggle for revolution worldwide.
你一开口就是“我们为全世界社会主义革命而进行的斗争”。好大的口气!一个连本国工人运动都组织不起来、连一个基层支部都建不起来的澳大利亚键盘政治家,倒有资格给全世界的革命道路制定标准,还能对十四亿人的实践经验盖棺定论了?更荒唐的是,你居然单方面把中国以及所有支持中国社会主义道路的力量都开除出了“我们的斗争”。这个“我们”到底是谁?是那些在历史上真正夺取过政权、真正搞过建设、真正让工人阶级掌握权力的严肃共产党,还是你和网上几个互相吹捧的熟人?现实世界里,凡是取得过任何实质性成就的共产党,几乎都承认中国的社会主义性质,并且认真研究中国经验。你所谓的“许多左翼”,拆开来看,无非就是托洛茨基主义者、极左宗派主义者和“无政府主义者”。其中绝大多数是白人、西方、尤其是北美的知识分子,一辈子连一次成功罢工都没组织过,选举没赢过,合作社也没建成过,却没完没了地“批判”别人几代人用鲜血和汗水走出来的道路。这种“批判”说到底不过是嫉妒,是无能者面对实践者时的一种精神胜利法。
你把中国共产党称作一个“统治阶级”。凡是受过一点基本政治经济学训练的人,都能看出来你连《资本论》第一卷都没有真正读懂。什么叫阶级?阶级不是幼儿园水平的“谁坐在上面、谁待在下面”。阶级是由其在生产关系中的地位决定的;核心标准,是对生产资料的所有权,以及由此产生的、私人地无偿占有他人劳动所创造剩余价值的能力。在中国,土地实行全民所有和集体所有;金融、能源、通信、交通等关系国民经济命脉的重要部门掌握在公有制经济手中;国有资本所产生的收益归全民所有,并通过财政体系重新用于教育、医疗、基础设施建设和大规模扶贫等公共事业。你把“国有化比例很高的资本主义国家”和“社会主义”混为一谈,恰恰说明你根本分不清形式上的国家资本主义与事实上处于无产阶级专政条件下的公有制经济。你连最基本的经济概念都没弄明白。
接着,你又“简单地”宣布中国工人对社会没有民主控制。注意,你没有提供任何证据,没有调查,没有数据,只有一句轻飘飘的“就是如此”和一个“毫无疑问”。那事实是什么?哈佛大学阿什民主治理与创新中心连续多年的调查显示,中国公众对中央政府的满意度长期维持在90%以上。爱德曼信任度调查中,中国公众对政府的信任度也多年位居世界前列。这些可不是什么中国官方宣传数据,而是第三方机构、甚至是西方机构做出的调查。你一句“工人没有控制权”就想把这些全部抹掉,可你所谓“民主控制”的标准到底是什么?是不是非得长得像威斯敏斯特议会那样,才配叫民主?
你大概不知道,在中国,县级和乡镇级人民代表大会代表实行直接选举,选民登记率超过90%。你大概也不知道,中国存在一整套自下而上的意见表达、反馈和纠错机制:从村委会、居委会到街道办事处,从地方党委信访部门到12345政务服务便民热线,从人民网“领导留言板”到各级纪检监察举报平台。你大概还不知道,在“十四五”规划编制过程中,中央通过网络向社会征集了数以百万计的意见建议,其中相当一部分被直接吸收到相关文件中。你不知道这些,不是因为它们不存在,而是因为你从来懒得认真了解一个你早已决定鄙视的国家。
你说你“和中国人聊过”,然后得出结论,说中国实行的是一种“善意的等级制政府”。行啊,那我也可以跑到澳大利亚一家酒吧里,找几个喝醉了的矿工聊聊天,然后宣布澳大利亚其实是“封建君主制”。拿几次私人谈话代替社会调查,拿游客式的印象代替阶级分析,这就是你的方法。
说到“等级”,你好像还觉得自己发现了一个多么高明的论据:中国存在层级,因此中国不是社会主义。稍微读过点书的无政府主义者恐怕都不敢把逻辑讲得这么粗糙。巴枯宁过去一百五十年以后,就连当代无政府主义理论都不得不把“废除一切等级”修改成“废除不合理的等级关系”,因为他们自己也承认,只要协作规模超过几十个人,就必然需要协调机制、劳动分工以及某种形式的指挥体系。社会主义要消灭的是剥削性的阶级等级,是资本对劳动的支配,而不是消灭一切组织形式、一切管理结构和一切必要的集中。把“存在层级结构”等同于“不是社会主义”,这已经不只是把孩子连洗澡水一起倒掉了,你倒掉的那个“孩子”本身都是你自己想象出来的稻草人。
然后你又说,中国“缺乏能够实现有意义政治改变的途径”。又是“直接下结论”,又是毫无证据。你似乎不知道党内有民主生活会,有批评与自我批评的传统,有纪律检查和监察制度;不知道中国人民政治协商会议是一个涵盖各民主党派、人民团体、各民族和各界人士的协商平台;不知道还有立法听证、基层协商民主以及“枫桥经验”式的矛盾纠纷化解机制。你说“加入其他政党不算”,可以,那你知不知道中国的八个民主党派不是反对党,而是参政党,直接参与国家大政方针的协商讨论,而且其成员在各级政府、人民代表大会和人民政协中都担任实职?你要么根本不知道,要么明明知道,只是因为这些事实不符合你预设的模板,所以就宣布它们“不算”。
你还谈到工会,说中国没有工会,说“唯一的工会被中共控制”。拥有三亿多会员、世界上规模最大的工会组织(中华全国总工会)到了你嘴里居然就等于“不存在”。你的理由是,它和社会主义国家“纠缠在一起”。可是同志,在无产阶级专政条件下,工会同国家之间本来就不是敌对关系。在资本主义社会里,工会的重要意义在于同资本以及资产阶级国家进行斗争;而在社会主义社会里,国家本身就是工人阶级的国家,工会的任务是组织工人参与管理、维护劳动权益、促进生产发展、教育工人阶级,它的基本方向自然同社会主义国家是一致的。拿衡量资本主义国家工会的同一套“独立性”标准去衡量社会主义国家的工会,就跟按照鱼的标准去判断鸟会不会飞一样荒谬。
你又提到对罢工的“严厉镇压”,却故意无视中国《劳动法》《劳动合同法》《工会法》对劳动者权益的明确保护,无视劳动仲裁制度,也无视近年来大量工人通过法律渠道和集体协商成功维权的案例。你只是选择性地盯住那一小部分符合你预设结论的材料,然后假装除此之外什么都不存在。
最后,你说:“只有中国以外的人才会说中国是社会主义。”中国共产党拥有一亿多名党员,再加上共青团、工会、妇联等组织的覆盖,这个国家有数以亿计的人直接参与社会主义制度的组织和运转。你随便去问一个生活、工作在中国工厂、农村、社区或者学校里的人,问他知不知道自己生活在社会主义制度之下;难道还非得由你来告诉他:“其实你们不是社会主义”?
一个澳大利亚人拿旅游签证来过几次中国,跟几个人喝过几次茶,回去以后就宣布十四亿人都误解了自己社会的性质。这种傲慢,说到底不过是殖民心态的左翼变种:我比你更懂你的国家,我比你更有资格定义你应该走什么道路,你们自己的实践都不算数,只有我的标准才算数。
I think that's a bit reductive. While I am a sceptic that they'll ever really succeed and think they've fucked themselves a bit with how much power Chinese tech companies have been allowed to amass, there are true believers among the party and the central committee. I mean they teach Marxism in school (sort of).
In general chinese people describe extremely high satisfaction with their government, and respond more positively to questions like "If I have an issue I can go to my local politician and resolve it"^[https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-survey-reveals-chinese-government-satisfaction/] than Westminster derived systems (which I would also not dignify with the word democracy) and it is worth asking why this holds while most so called democracies have hostile and parasitic governments.
If the will of the people is enacted then this is a sort of democracy, while if you vote and then the people you elect serve elites and ignore you this isn't really democratic.
Structurally some things in China are working vastly better than elsewhere, and it's worth trying to understand /why/ their government seems to work for the people so much more than other systems.
But I was merely relaying what they claim about themselves to point out even people fully committed to toeing their party line would not call them communist.
Hexbear and .ml are really this weird, yeah. They don't even pretend to be socialist yet they just insist it's AES.
Anarcho communists welcome you. We hate all nation states equally. Unfortunately there aren't enough of us to brigade anything.
For anyone who wishes to know more Now And After: The ABC of Communist Anarchism was written to explain anarcho-communism in plain, easily understood, language.
It begins by explaining the current capitalist system (now) and then goes on to explain anarchism (after).
It is available to read or download in multiple formats, for free, here: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/alexander-berkman-what-is-communist-anarchism#toc2
This isn't terrible, but it's important to be aware that the class analysis and definition of capitalism in this is nonsense. The capitalist class is not just "rich people" and the working class is not just "poor people." Capitalism is not defined by...whatever this attempts to define it by. Capital is the power to prioritize the allocation of resources and labor.
Capitalism stands for the idea that the purpose of all value, surplus and base really, of production is to increase the capital of the holders of capital. That is it. It is the worship of allocative power solely for the sake of allocative power. And that's why it inevitably degenerates into fascism--the worship of power solely for the sake of power.
All class dynamics must oriented themselves within the structure of that allocative power analysis. The capitalist class is not "rich" people, or at least not definitionally, and the working class is not poor people. The capitalist class are those who derive increase to their allocative power primarily from the direction of capital under the capitalist system. On the flip side, working class is anyone who increases their own allocative power primarily through the application of their own labor. The vague vibes based class analysis in this would effectively place servers (like, at a restaurant) as bourgeoisie capitalist-class/adjacent just like doctors, lawyers, programmers, and the like. I think it's clear why that maybe feels like complete bullshit to most peeps.
Did you read a different book?...
He's very much aware of what capitalism is and clearly doesn't just believe it to be "rich people". What nonsense.
He literally says the bourgeoisie, namely doctors, lawyers, and the like, are, in their interests, aligned with the capitalist class if not altogether a part of it. And even the parts you quote are hard to parse as they are both focused on the outputs of production rather than the allocative power leading to production but also touch upon the problem of how our overly financialized economies obfuscate the allocative power issue. At the same time, when he says shit like "the business man is entirely at [the big bankers financiers] mercy" it makes me think we are not on the same page here, unless his definition of business man is not the investor class--absolutely capitalist class--business man I use.
It's almost as if anarcho communism isn't based upon Marxist definitions...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_communist_ideologies#Anarchist_communism
I can understand hating all nation states, but hating them equally? Couldn't be me.
there are dozens of us!
I'm fine with someone having a negative opinion of China so long as they don't use that as a purity test and demand everyone else denounce China, calling people "fascists" or "tankies" and refusing to work with them otherwise.
Obviously, the vast majority of people on here don't live in China, and we generally have bigger fish to fry domestically to worry about meddling in their affairs. I would turn the question around and ask why people are so invested in making sure everyone sufficiently condemns China instead of working together to address the more pressing matter of class conflict.
This is exactly how I feel about a lot of anti-China spaces. It's difficult to have a real discussion about almost any topic related to China because if you suggest that anything about them isn't the worst thing ever you get accused of being a fascist and dismissed, if not banned. If .ml goes too far in the other direction, then it is at least somewhat unique in doing so, and it's worthwhile to have a space where non-mainstream perspectives can be discussed.
Some of us are just tired of western people not wanting to get a little nuance about none western countries. And the instance you admit that ofcourse no place is perfect you get hit with. "See x is bad, communism can't work in reality." It is tiresome and eventually I end up defaulting to standard answers or blocking people if they are rude.
On top of that I do think it is amazing how for instance India, China and Vietnam has improved the lives of billions, but every single time it hit western news it is followed by "but at what price".
And finally I have realized that things are not always as they seem and the propaganda machine makes it hard to discern the reality of many things. This goes for everything. I have no clue if it actually is dangerous to go USA or it just seem that way.
The US is indeed very dangerous. If the police don't harass you out of boredom, the drugged up homeless man will chase you down the street screaming.
Literally happened to me a few days ago, fucking hate it here.
USian here. It's not dangerous as long as you're not even vaguely latino.
It kinda is though. You have to worry about scammers/pickpockets/hustlers/gangs in a couple or spots (although they mostly stick to murdering each other).
Plus basal violence is extremely high. Like even by intentional homicides it's in the top third https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
There's a lot of the world without a "bad part of town"
Pickpocketing is not a thing in America. Too subtle. We are a mugging people. However, I will say that your chances of encountering gang violence as a tourist/traveler are quite low. The main danger when visiting here is the government/police.
I want to say "how much of that is gang violence" but I don't want to take one in the neck.
It’s a lot of you count ICE as a gang.
Based on this thread I think I will stay my horses. No fun in that kind worry for what would have been a once in a life time experience.
Also I find it interesting I get 7 downvotes for answering OP in good faith. Lemmy is not Reddit and I am happy for it, but there are a lot of trenches here
Those people are called tankies
I haven't seen any posts about how great Russia is
I once got at least 10 comments telling me how good russia and china are and how bad USA is and that i am a USA sucker, welp kinda my fault for making a comment in the wrong instance
I'm sure you've had this explained before, how a unipolar world is worse than a detente.