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[Chris Wheeler/Sami Mokbel] Casemiro and Raphael Varane are heading for Manchester United exits
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this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2023
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Casemiro going from being over-priced questionable signing to essential part of the team to washed dead money back up has happened at a remarkable pace.
It’s happens sometimes when you spend big on older players. People like to think that top players all stay at peak level deep into their 30s but many do tail off fast.
Everytime you mention someone over 30 might decline suddenly you are bombarded with people claiming that there’s “no way a professional like him” could decline and that sports science has gotten so advanced that it essentially trumps biology meaning there’s no reason players would decline one bit before they’re 36 at the earliest.
Specially if they're Brazilian, Marcelo took a massive dive right after 30.
Players decline nobody ever denies that
Casemrio was great 4 months ago so was Varane
The difference is team doing bad so you say this, it's not about age it's more about team performance
I just gave an example of Xhaka, do u think prime Xhaka was worse than 30 year old Xhaka? Or was it fans scapegoating due to club performances
well xhaka also had other issues that caused him to try to do to much thus lose what he was/is good at look not as great.
always liked him even through his bad spell ofc.
didnt help that he was signed when wenger was still there then gone through a few different mangers with different styles.
its prob the same at man u because different managers rate different /want different players or players that they want and not what they have as well.
besides the fact that they are older ofc
Xhaka has not declined yet. Nothing in my comment suggests that I think every player 30 or over has started to decline.
Your comment generalizes and says nothing of value
Nobody has ever said what you are saying you are just overexaggaratting, when both Casemiro and Varane were signed people quesioned it including like Carragher etc
Your point is awful, age matters yes but 3 months of bad performances doesn't mean 31 year old player is shit and has declined, what would happen if he is good next season? Does age not matter or is it just shit overall team performance by basically everyone
casemiro hasn't been great since february
Prime Xhaka is now innit? He was mediocre for years and was a liability for a red card.
he was still a beast though, us gooners just seemed to loathe him. I always thought he was sick af
How many red cards has Xaka compared to Casemiro?
According to TransferMarkt
Xhaka - 14 (7 Straight Reds) Casemiro - 5 (2 Straight Reds)
Across their whole careers.
On one hand casemiro has gotten away with murder on the field without getting a card so many times in the other hand that may be a skill. Not really sure how to read these stats - feels like context makes it too nuanced.
It's no skill, it's playing for Real Madrid.
Yup! I remember getting attacked here for questioning the value of Casemiro at his age/price/contract cos who wants to believe that a player they like might decline soon. Was the same with Peresic who everyone assured me would be a wonderful wingback adapting to PL aged 33!!!
It’s a real minority who play deep into their 30s, handing out big contracts to such players should be done with real care and scrutiny unless you are a monopoly money club then whatever gamble away!
Perisic is our current best left winger. Last year was shit for everybody I don't think there was any evidence he declined noticeably.
Oh look another example
Last year Perisic legs gone this year he is good
He tore his acl this year
So did Gavi a 11 year old
What is even your point he was good before that
A few high profile players elongated their careers and now everyone on here thinks all footballers can play past their mid thirties and goalkeepers begin their prime at 30
Which is a stupid argument. Plenty of players that look after their body just decline physically though no fault of their own in their 30s. Look at Diego Forlán. He was always in peak shape, single digit bodyfat and wanted to run for everything, known for longevity. Yet just before the 2011 Copa América when he was 32, he just fell off of a cliff at club level, didn't score in 12 games and just did not have the legs to play in Europe anymore as a mobile striker. Sometimes it just happens, players decline regardless of how well they look after their body. No one can beat farther time. Jordan Henderson is another example, be was declining for years before leaving Liverpool, despite always being in tip top shape.
Its millage in the legs also.. messi and Ronaldo always were efficient with the effort.. would walk half the game etc.. it’s the charge around non stop players who’s muscles and tendons just lose their snap
Hendo was never in tip top shape. He's played through a heel problem for years even at his peak.
Casemiro also played a ridiculous amount of games and any type of legginess at a position like DM gets exposed instantly in the PL.
Look at Fabinho ffs. Went from elite to literally washed in like 10 months. Still one of the craziest declines I’ve seen
Many people often also ignore the human element of this. They think footballers are robots like in their games of FIFA on PS5. There are so many examples of footballers losing their drive to stay at peak performance or who want to move onto other interests.
This wave of guys like Ronaldo, Messi, Ibra, Thiago Silva, Modric, have made people forged that 90% of players over 32 are going to drop their performance lvl. People forget these are professionals with their hands on top level technology, nutricion, recovering etc. Also 2 of them were born with probably 1 in a million natural genaracional talent. That and like you said games like Fifa and FM have made people look at older player in a diferent way ( which is not all 100% correct). Hell, 15 years ago, a 29 year old player would be called ancient.
FIFA and FM very much help ingrain the idea that players are washed up and on the decline as soon as they hit 30 - which is the opposite of what you're saying.
I get your point about players like Modric, Messi, Ibra, Silva, etc, distorting people's opinions of how long a player can be at their peak for - but the FIFA/FM part is nonsense.
No one called 29yr old players ancient 15 years ago.
yeah Zidane was 29 when Real Madrid signed him and I can't remember anyone talking about his age
bud you're on /r/soccer so you're talking to a 10 year old, 15 years ago the universe didn't even exist
🤯
I wish I could upvote you twice
I 100% did this. I said "A 29 year old is a total waste of our time and money. its ridiculous. wtf are we doing? The club has lost it! He's totally washed and over the hill! Did we learn nothing from Joe Cole?!? FFS!"
.... that 29 year old was James Milner.
Total garbage. 29 year old players have never been considered ancient.
Yep. What could he do that would live up to the ecstasy of winning the league cup?
Not to mention, when a player is young and poor they are hungry. I just am not certain how a 32 year old, who is worth millions can have that same want to get out of bed every day with achy joints and go train, instead of living in leisure and just putting in the time. It is still a job and many forget that.
Also when they're young and poor their joints don't ache, they haven't been kicked for years, maybe don't have children waking them up in the night
He's also someone that was competing for everything at Madrid and moved to a club that competes for a champions league spot every year.
And I can't really blame them.
You've earned millions, played tons of important games, won trophies. At some point you might think ''been there, done that'' and start prioritizing other things besides your footballing career.
For some players the drive to compete and strive for the best never diminishes but it's not all what's out there.
Casemiro also went from a culture where excellence is expected to a culture where it’s not.
This subreddit and other social media were hilarious when they signed them. Like it's logical to question the merits of spending that much on players of that age. Sure there's some who have held off their declines, but the majority of players dip at a certain age. For the money United spent, they could have bought far better long term options.
But they didn't want long term options. They've got the cash to sign a Casemiro every year or two.
They'd rather overpay for proven players than risk spending a chunk on a player who's not quite as good, but has room to improve.
Players of his calibre are so rarely available, and especially not willing to go to a borderline CL qualifier with little realistic chance of a title win.
The problem Man U have is that they've got the resources for those top drawer players, but they're not an attractive option.
I mean, imagine them trying to sign Jude Bellingham. Is there actually an amount of money they could have given him to sign there? 3, 4, 5 times the wages Madrid offered? I think he'd still go to Real.
And if he did go to Man U, it would literally only be for money, so not that motivated to put in a good performance. As we've seen over and over.
United now are no different to when Liverpool were taken over by FSG. They focused on long term building with smart signings. Signing players after in decline or just before their decline isn’t getting them anywhere. There’s a world of options between Casemiro and Bellingham.