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[Chris Wheeler/Sami Mokbel] Casemiro and Raphael Varane are heading for Manchester United exits
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this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2023
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It’s happens sometimes when you spend big on older players. People like to think that top players all stay at peak level deep into their 30s but many do tail off fast.
Like Koulibaly with us tbh
Also how Casemiro got REALLY fat in the offseason.
One would think he would try to stay in shape now he is over 30. Nope. Party all the way and pick up a lot of weight that needed to be shed really fast.
Schweinsteiger
Everytime you mention someone over 30 might decline suddenly you are bombarded with people claiming that there’s “no way a professional like him” could decline and that sports science has gotten so advanced that it essentially trumps biology meaning there’s no reason players would decline one bit before they’re 36 at the earliest.
Specially if they're Brazilian, Marcelo took a massive dive right after 30.
Players decline nobody ever denies that
Casemrio was great 4 months ago so was Varane
The difference is team doing bad so you say this, it's not about age it's more about team performance
I just gave an example of Xhaka, do u think prime Xhaka was worse than 30 year old Xhaka? Or was it fans scapegoating due to club performances
well xhaka also had other issues that caused him to try to do to much thus lose what he was/is good at look not as great.
always liked him even through his bad spell ofc.
didnt help that he was signed when wenger was still there then gone through a few different mangers with different styles.
its prob the same at man u because different managers rate different /want different players or players that they want and not what they have as well.
besides the fact that they are older ofc
Yup! I remember getting attacked here for questioning the value of Casemiro at his age/price/contract cos who wants to believe that a player they like might decline soon. Was the same with Peresic who everyone assured me would be a wonderful wingback adapting to PL aged 33!!!
It’s a real minority who play deep into their 30s, handing out big contracts to such players should be done with real care and scrutiny unless you are a monopoly money club then whatever gamble away!
Perisic is our current best left winger. Last year was shit for everybody I don't think there was any evidence he declined noticeably.
Oh look another example
Last year Perisic legs gone this year he is good
He tore his acl this year
So did Gavi a 11 year old
What is even your point he was good before that
A few high profile players elongated their careers and now everyone on here thinks all footballers can play past their mid thirties and goalkeepers begin their prime at 30
Which is a stupid argument. Plenty of players that look after their body just decline physically though no fault of their own in their 30s. Look at Diego Forlán. He was always in peak shape, single digit bodyfat and wanted to run for everything, known for longevity. Yet just before the 2011 Copa América when he was 32, he just fell off of a cliff at club level, didn't score in 12 games and just did not have the legs to play in Europe anymore as a mobile striker. Sometimes it just happens, players decline regardless of how well they look after their body. No one can beat farther time. Jordan Henderson is another example, be was declining for years before leaving Liverpool, despite always being in tip top shape.
Its millage in the legs also.. messi and Ronaldo always were efficient with the effort.. would walk half the game etc.. it’s the charge around non stop players who’s muscles and tendons just lose their snap
Hendo was never in tip top shape. He's played through a heel problem for years even at his peak.
It happens when you buy a player who is good at quick progressive passes, good at defense, and great with quick possessions and you have him hold the ball, be the sole pivot, and not pair him with anyone that fits him. Using him as a sole pivot is especially a problem, that doesn't make any sense in the modern game where every good team has two pivots, much less with a player that isn't used to it
I’ve said this many times, anyone who saw KCM play knew Casemiro barely had any on ball responsibilities.
As soon as I saw that Ten Hag was asking him to spray the ball around the pitch like prime Pirlo I knew there’d be a problem. He can give you a few good passes and dribbles but he can’t do it every game for 90 minutes, never has ever had to.
Now All of a sudden he’s “washed”, he’s far from washed imo. Any team looking for a pure destroyer type CDM, and already has good ball playing CMs would benefit him greatly. United’s other midfielders aside from Bruno are not up to standard.
In basketball it's typically that after you hit like 31, 32 you have a 15-20% chance of injury that you never really recover from. Idk if it's happened to casemiro here or not though.
No it doesn't
It happens with young players too
Rashfor goes from shit to world class regularly, AWB went from shit to essential to shit
Many other United players and other team players as well, why? Because fans have the memory of a gold fish and when team does bad they do this
Rashford’s a budget player who turns it on for 7 months when a contract is on the line. Xhaka grew as a player when his role was adapted to provide him better cover to make up for his lack of pace and somewhat questionable defensive instincts. Casemiro has just gotten old after being consistent forever.
Younger players who function better in one system or another or others who turn it on at pinch points in their career are not the same as older player going over the hill.
Rashford and AWB examples are fluctuations in form, an inherent lack of consistency, and/or fit with the manager's tactics and what the squad needs. This is different than an age-related decline in quality when a player hits a point where their experience and knowledge of the game is no longer able to make up for the loss of athleticism.
Outside of significant injuries, it's rare that a good player hits their peak in their early-mid 20s and can never get back to that. A lot will reach their potential and stop developing but they don't go backwards. That's why it's so surprising and attracts attention when it does happen, e.g. Dele.
Players in their mid 20s peak and fall off all the time we have thousands of examples, some players are just not that good and peak fall off season after season
Not every player in their mid 20s is consistent
Sure, you can find some, but thousands of examples? I think it's far more often the case that the players that look to have gotten worse really aren't, they are just being expected to play at a level beyond their abilities so they look bad. For example a player having a great season in the Championship, getting sold to a PL team and doing poorly most likely isn't receding from their peak, they were never a PL level player to begin with.
Yes thousands of examples
Players have one off seasons all the time in every league idk how people watch football but say this
Just in PL u have so many one season wonders let alone other leagues that you have never seen
Idk if i know this but it's very hard to be consistent and great at a very high level
A one off season is not their actual level, it's just being in great form...
It's not just one off season, it's overall consistency that is so hard to achieve at high levels not just in football in every sport
Speaking of Rashford, he only gives a shit when he wants a new contract lol
See another stupid comment with goldfish memory and just zero evidence
Rashford never gives a fuck, he sulked and didn't jump for headers last season any time i watched but he scored goals so your goldfish memory forgets that
What do you mean about AWB? He went from shit to essential and then has been injured, he's only just back
🎶Ohhh Thiago Silvaaaaaaa🎶
We know we got lucky.
Yeah but Chelsea got him for free. Even if he had been garbage he would’ve been valuable for culture. Cavani, Thiago Silva, Zlatan, Larsson, etc all good signings. Even someone like Gary Mac for Liverpool.
If United had signed him for free they’d still be going on about how good he is. But on the flip slide Chelsea would never have spent £70m on Casemiro.
You guys are a money-no-object club, you can absolutely afford to take the gambles and pocket the wins. United are having to budget carefully for FFP and they’ve blown a fortune on transfer fee/wages here!
huh wasn't thiago silva was a free transfer though?
United is also a money-no-object club lol. They are just bad at it
United have even more money than chelsea, just chelsea sometimes actually sell players they've spunked away all their money on so they can spunk away some more money
I assume there is a /s here lol.
We signed Silva on a free...and we also stay within FFP by selling/loaning players.