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Well after reading the wiki, I wouldn’t call it that:
I think due process is one of the fundamental principles of our society, be for it murder, rape or petty theft.
This reminds me of a reddit post from a while ago. Dude is going to a university in the US. He's randomly contacted by campus police to let him know that a student has taken out a restraining order on him. He's a graduate student, and the student who took out the restraining order is from one of his classes that's typically for undergrads. Other than sharing that class, he doesn't know the student. Never even spoken to them. He's on a student visa, if he's expelled, he'll likely be deported. He's not allowed to speak to the student and campus police won't even tell him why the restraining order is in place.
After doing some investigation on his own, he finds out the student is dating one of his roommates, who he also doesn't know very well. The roommate is stalking the student, and another roommate is helping the stalker.
The student who took out the restraining order had seen him with the stalker at some point and, because the class they share is typically for undergrads, assumed he only took the class to keep an eye on the student for the stalker.
He was able to go to his graduate advisor about it and luckily it all got cleared up, the student withdrew the restraining order. But his whole academic career was nearly derailed because a random person was able to take out a restraining order on him with zero direct evidence, and there was no established means by which he could defend himself.
That’s why you shouldn’t let university staff do police work or become Dredd (judge, jury & executioner). Professionals have trained for years to get this stuff right but “campus police” thinks they can do it without any proper training or investigation.
"Campus Police" are regular police (for all that's worth), not rent-a-cops. Their jurisdiction is University and University-related policing. Think of the University as being its own city.
I teach nights at a university and UPD is pretty great. The city cops are very much out to get people, whereas the UPD has a very light touch. They'll bust a party with a bunch of 19yo Kids drinking too much and getting loud, and tell them to keep it down and stay safe, while offering to call a non-police volunteer to drive anyone home for free.
Parking Services (not part of UPD) can get go suck on a tailpipe though. Fuck those guys.
That’s good to hear. Maybe I shouldn’t have shat on the campus police but rather the campus staff making the decision to expel without going through the proper process.
They are given due process, including access to lawyers, evidence, and witnesses. They're even allowed to take the case to court. All public universities are required to offer full due process when expelling students.
Private universities are not required to do so because they're not run by the government.
An anonymous poster posts a story in Reddit…
That’s in contradiction to what the Wikipedia page shows.
So many of them do not. Why does not being run by the government exempt schools from applying basic human rights?
Your question is a little hyperbolic since what your talking about is title IX specifically, not “human rights” in general.
You can read about title IX exemptions here.
I’m not talking about human rights in general, I’m talking about those specific basic human rights.
Due process protects you from the government. You don't get due process when you get kicked out of a private business or university for misbehaving. They can kick you out for no reason at all.
If you misbehave, sure, but this is not misbehaving. This is a crime. One that hasn’t been proven to have happened at all.
That is a major issue. Kicking someone out of university is a life-changing punishment, and should not be taken so lightly when someone may be innocent. There should be rules about that and I don’t think this should be normalized.
Getting fired is life changing yet we accept that we could be fired at any time for no reason here in the US. Protections against getting arbitrarily kicked out of a private university would require legislation. Right now that's a risk you assume when you go to a private institution versus a public one.
That is also a problem. But getting kicked out of university for supposed rape when you’re innocent is a life sentence. No decent job will ever hire you.
The fact that this shit happens all the time doesn’t mean you have to normalise it. It’s not normal.
Actually it's a pre requisite for being a politician or clergy member.
Earns you a golden toilet even
Then maybe Cornell shouldn’t have impeded a real investigation here.
I don’t see a Cornell in this story. Do you mean the university? (I honestly don’t know, not from the US)
If that’s the case: absolutely, the university should not have a say in what is a matter of the law.
Cornell is currently in the news for covering up a gang rape two years ago. It’s come out they withheld evidence from the DA and the police and DA never investigated properly.
Columbia has similar skeletons in their closet.
I didn’t know about that, but I don’t know why it has any relevance to my comment: I’m advocating for due process and you pose an obstruction of that very due process as somehow contradictory to my statement.
You have no idea the conversations you're actually having in here then.
I have an idea about the Wikipedia page I read. That is what I replied to. I also have an opinion about due process, which I am very well aware of.
You tried to pull some other case into it that I wasn’t even talking about and now you try to accuse me of having no idea about the entire discussion before that?
Are you deliberately trying to make yourself look like a fool? You really couldn’t do a better job if you tried.
Says the person who stalked me to push that I'm a MAGA psyop. I don't attach any weight to any of your opinions.
Stalked? Where? Please enlighten me with your definition of stalking. You’re leaving multiple comments to my one that wasn’t even a reply to you.
Don’t tell me you actually bought that, Velma? That would be hilarious.
lol stating what you did doesn’t mean I believed you.
Oh? What’s this then?
Yeah you were pushing it multiple times. That doesn’t mean I believed your trolling attempt. Do you routinely struggle with reading comprehension?
I do not. Nor am I now.
Here are the 13 possible meaning of the word “push”
to apply steady force to (something) in order to move it
to thrust (one's way) through something, such as a crowd, by force
to apply oneself vigorously (to achieving a task, plan, etc)
(tr) to encourage or urge (a person) to some action, decision, etc
to be an advocate or promoter (of)
(tr) to use one's influence to help (a person)
to bear upon (oneself or another person) in order to achieve more effort, better results, etc
(tr) to take undue risks, esp through overconfidence, thus risking failure
(intr) to act overconfidently
sport to hit (a ball) with a stiff pushing stroke
informal (tr) to sell (narcotic drugs) illegally
(intr; foll by out, into, etc) (esp of geographical features) to reach or extend
(tr) to overdevelop (a photographic film), usually by the equivalent of up to two stops, to compensate for underexposure or increase contrast
slang to be dead and buried
Now I comprehend that you don’t mean that I was pushing a boulder or pushing drugs, and your anger makes it obvious you don’t think I was trying to help you, so I’m thinking more along the lines of #3 or #5. Now both of these, as I comprehend them, mean you take your task or theory quite seriously.
Now I don’t want to push your buttons any further and English isn’t my first language, nor my second, but I do think I have a valid point here.
A whole novel just for me! WOW 😍 didn’t read it though lol
Ah well, most was plagiarism anyway. A pity, you might have learned something.
Do you often struggle with longer sections? Is it because of your impaired reading comprehension?