this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2023
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[–] PunnyName@lemmy.world 232 points 11 months ago (2 children)

American prisons ARE meant for torture. Don't get it twisted.

If they were for rehabilitation or treatment, then we would see to that, societally. But we don't.

This is a small piece of why our justice system is so absolutely fucked.

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 89 points 11 months ago (8 children)

American prisons ARE meant for torture. Don’t get it twisted.

naw. not really. Prisons are meant to provide cheap domestic labor to the corporations running them. it's all profits.

[–] HikingVet@lemmy.ca 96 points 11 months ago

Well both those things can be true.

[–] Poggervania@kbin.social 47 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Never forget, it’s actually legal to enslave prisoners according to the 13th Amendment.

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 34 points 11 months ago

yup. And there is a reason why laws are written to disproportionately affect certain groups- like how crack cocaine gets more jail time than powder, or marijuana convictions...

[–] PunnyName@lemmy.world 21 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

That's a part of it, yes. It's the slavery loophole in the 13th amendment.

[–] superb@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Less of a loophole, more of an intended feature

[–] Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Loopholes are things intentionally built into structures with the purpose of allowing something through. I find it weird so many people think loopholes aren't something intentional.

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I'm having a lot of trouble finding a source that backs up this position. Everything I'm reading says that loopholes are typically oversights, not intentional inclusions.

That being said, the 13th amendment's allowance for prisoner slavery is not a loophole at all, it's an explicit allowance. Loopholes are not explicit, that's kinda the whole point of them. It's a bit like saying that the standard deduction on your taxes is a loophole. It's just an explicitly defined feature.

[–] Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

While that, in fact, does happen, when a large portion of loopholes benefit corporations are written by people employed, or otherwise invested in, those corporations you would have to be lying to yourself, or ignorant of the situation, to believe loopholes are generally unintended.

https://publicintegrity.org/politics/state-politics/copy-paste-legislate/you-elected-them-to-write-new-laws-theyre-letting-corporations-do-it-instead/

The above is one example of how this is done. Bills are written to model what the industry wants to get out of legislation. Then they use LLMs to construct legislation after being trained on those models. They then collude to push these bills to as many places as possible, greasing palms the whole way. Sometimes these are just out-right legislation for the purposes of enriching the industry, more often though they are bills written with carefully designed language to allow for specific technicalities, or for stipulations of compliance to be so vague as to be unenforceable, or to use a bunch of jargon and complex linguistics to make a law read one way to the laymen, but another to the professionals that will actually be interacting with these laws.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 11 months ago

The torture is just a fringe benefit in the cops' eyes.

[–] Stovetop@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

FWIW the vast majority of prisons in the US are not corporate run (>90%), but those majority government-run prisons still provide a lot of free/cheap manufacturing labor to private companies.

The government itself is to blame, not just private prisons.

[–] AlwaysNowNeverNotMe@kbin.social 6 points 11 months ago

Cheap domestic labor isn't torture?

[–] commanderbalok@lemmynsfw.com 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Spoke with an AIC "worker" this summer about the slave labor he was doing, he said it was better than being inside. Not at all defending the program but it was interesting to hear his perspective. Also don't mean to sound glib, phone typing isn't my favorite.

[–] HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works 5 points 11 months ago

lesser of two evils

[–] UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

13th amendment

[–] affiliate@lemmy.world 39 points 11 months ago (3 children)

i think you’re responding to a normative statement by making a descriptive statement.

for those unaware, here’s a quick explanation from wikipedia: a normative statement is “meant to talk about the world as it should be”, while a descriptive statement is “meant to describe the world as it is”.

[–] magikmw@lemm.ee 18 points 11 months ago

If we could read we would be very upset.

[–] HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)
[–] affiliate@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

i wasn’t trying to talk about grammar at all, i was only trying to focus only on the meaning of what was said. but i probably could’ve made my point more clearly, so ill try to do that now.

here’s an “example”: one person says “things should be done this way” and the other person says “well things aren’t being done that way”. these two statements aren’t in opposition to each other. in fact, it’s perfectly possible both people agree with each other. maybe things aren’t being done a certain way, and they should be done differently.

the terms “normative” and “descriptive” might seem overly complicated to someone who hasn’t seen them before (they did the first time i saw them), but i thought i’d use them because they’re useful concepts to keep in mind. they’ve helped me communicate and resolve conflicts in my own life. i’ve been both people in the example above, and it’s helpful to be able to know when it’s happening.

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago

The most based discourse nazi, singlehandedly preventing what could become a 30 comment deep argument where both sides fully misunderstand the other

[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Lemmy cannot read one word of your comment

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Edit I'm fuckin stupid, leaving this comment up as a monument to my illiteracy

Making a comment like this about basic conversation and debate concepts is like driving and saying you can't read the speed limit signs. Like, maybe you should avoid actively participating altogether until you're actually able to

[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Huh? My point was many Lemmy users very commonly reply to someone's descriptive comment with a normative complaint, and freak out when it's clarified.

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Wow I misread Lemmy as literally, I fuckered that one up bad lmao

[–] affiliate@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

i made the same mistake you did the first time i read their comment. your confusion helped me too!