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Cycling is ten times more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities
(theconversation.com)
this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2024
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I don’t doubt this at all.
But it’s going to be 10 degreees Fahrenheit on my way to work tomorrow.
Public transit that doesn’t double my commute time is what’s going to get me to stop driving. Not a bike.
Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can)
Tens of thousands of people cycle year round in Montreal.
Tampere has improved a lot in the last few years in terms of cycling infrastructure, I now commute by bike all year round, even when it was under -23°C for two weeks at the beginning of this year.
There could definitely be more improvements as segregated bike lane coverage can sometimes be a bit patchy still.
I'm surprised NJB didn't bring up the point of slush that much, but studded tires might help solve that problem, and this issue is tied up in poor winter maintenance of bike paths. The scariest part for biking in places like Toronto is the potential to slide out into vehicle traffic.
The other day I was going over snow dumps up to my knees like taking a BMX track in a commuter bike...
slush is a problem of bad snow clearing, if you don't have snow on the bike paths then there will be no slush come warmer weather.
I watched the video and it had a huuuge hole in its argument.
It basically said one of the key issues is snow removal, then conveniently doesn’t mention how Canada gets more 4X the amount of snow than the Netherlands… Canada doesn’t remove snow as often cause there is more of it…
I live in Montréal. Commute by bike daily. And the city removes snow just fine. Even from bike lanes.
I had a similar experience in Toronto for the years I lived there. But Montréal is better at clearing bike paths.
The video points out that Toronto is not a good biking experience in the winter. Your probably the minority in therms of tolerating snow on roads.
Montreal has higher taxes allowing them to spend more. The whole small government philosophy is the crux of the issue and it effects a lot of things that would make this problem better like public transportation.
True about Toronto. But it's also pointing out how Toronto gets much less snow than most of the rest of Canada (apart from maybe Vancouver). But it draws a lot of comparisons with Oulu, where it snows much more than Toronto (and Montréal) but they actually do snow removal well.
Montréal's forte is the separated bike baths that zigzag across the city, creating a safe artery. And I'm not talking about Bloor, College/Gerrard or Davenport level painted stripes with broken barriers. But actual two-lane paths.
Toronto could have the same, at least as an artery kind, connecting the East and North East via Don Valley and Taylor Creek, West along the Humber. Alas there's no winter maintenance for some reason on these pathways.
Maybe things will change under Olivia.
No I do agree that the video does provide a good argument that it is possible to fix. It’s pretty clear that with good, well maintained paths that more people will bike.
What I doubt is convincing Canadians that we need to spend a lot more building and cleaning up paths.
The video literally says it’s “laziness” whereas big infrastructure spending isn’t not attractive to North Americans. And their example of, “this one city figured it out” is not as convincing as “all of Europe figured it out”.
I remember vaguely an article from a few decades ago that claimed Montreal was the only Canadian city that at least tried to do snow clearing right.
Saskatoon, for example, is abysmal and always has been.
I once heard that property taxes would have to increase by a lousy $50/year to bring Saskatoon snow clearing up to Montreal standards. That's when I finally realized that governments at all levels, as they are currently organized, are basically useless when it comes to figuring out how to best serve the population.
The video is about how people in Finland still cycle.
It used Finland as the best case scenario. The argument is not as strong when your comparing it with the best case. The average case would be the rest of Europe and they don’t get as much snow.
Your original argument is that Canada gets more snow than the Netherlands which is why it's cycling infrastructure isn't ploughed as much / isn't as good. The video actually shows that Finland does deal with snow and many still bike.
Yet now you say Canada, a country that's known to be cold and have lots of snow should be compared to the EU average instead of similarly cold countries. Why shouldn't we compare Canada to Finland?
Yeah I actually made a mistake originally, I got the locations mixed up, my apologies.
But I personally don’t think Finland is a big enough example, at just 5 million, it’s a different ball game.
Having said that, I fully support my country (Canada) spending more money on infrastructure including better bike paths, but I have doubts it would work as well as Finland, we have way more suburbs.
I had this big comment, but just as I posted it my internet died. TLD±RW
I agree suburbs are hard to redevelop, we refocus cities to work for the people living in them, give suburbanites trains to cities and restrict cars. Which frees up space to allow for better winter cycle infrastructure.
Yeah I agree with that. I think we are way more behind in terms of good trains and public transportation. Better bike paths would help but if people still need cars to commute from an hour away cause there is no train and houses are expensive downtown, your city centre would still be a giant parking lot.
Cool, what about those who don't live within biking distance?
My work is 37 km of rural highway from my house. I biked it once years ago, took me 1h45m one way. Not a reasonable option.
Cool. What about all those people who live within 5km of where they need to go, and are generally alone in the car.
Just because it doesn’t apply to you in particular doesn’t mean you can’t support and champion a cause that would help in the grand scheme of things.
The comment I replied to implied that if people in Montreal can do it, why can't I? I was merely addressing the implied accusation.
Besides, if you want a champion the guy making $40k/year isn't it.
The billionaires got a lot of money to spend on transit and infrastructure and densification, but everytime this shit comes up somehow the guy who barely clears the fuckin poverty line is the one who has be a champion.
Why not? Once regular people do environmentally friendly things, we've essentially won, because that means the environmentally friendly things is the most reasonable and cost effective things. As in, we've normalized the desired behavior.
Getting a billionaire to change isn't going to work, that's like trying to push a goat in the direction you want them to go. That hasn't worked in the past, and it's not going to start now.
Focus on where the efforts are most likely to actually have an impact. We should be improving mass transit, pushing cars outside of cities, and encouraging cycling. That will cut road maintenance costs, drastically reduce traffic, and improve the health of the average person. Let billionaires do what they want, let's make cities something people want to live in. That starts by focusing on the guy that makes $40k/year and making sure he can get to work and back efficiently.
If you're still interested in long-distance commuting by bike, an e-bike is worth considering.
You'd likely get to work in "around" an hour with little effort. The cost savings from not having to buy gas for those distances would easily offset the cost of the bike + electricity used for charging.
Yes, biking 37km each way is pretty extreme. However, if you haven't already, I'd suggest questioning whether you should be making some changes in your life. Using rough calculations for a fairly efficient & economical car ($0.25CAD/km for gas, maintenance, and depreciation), your commute is costing you $18.50CAD/day (more if you drive an SUV/Truck)! That means if you could move closer to work so you could bike, you could pay an additional $350/mo in housing and still be ahead. Or, you could look for a new job that pays $4,600/year less net (probably ~$6,500/year gross) and be ahead. And if you could give up your car completely, those numbers could more than double!!
It's possible after reviewing the numbers, you'll conclude that it's not worth it to make any changes in your life, and that's fine! Work in agricultural and other rural industries is important. It's just that so many people aren't even ware how much their 20min commute costs them, let alone what it costs their local government (roads aren't cheap) or the environment in general.
I live with my mom. I cannot afford rent in the town that I work in, and the two other nearby towns require a car just the same as the one I'm in now.
I cannot afford to move. ~~When my mother dies I will likely become homeless.~~
Once again, the problem boils down to the billionaires not paying people enough.
I agree that our capitalist society sucks. Your only choice is work within it or die.
You answered one of the questions and almost certainly
no rent + $350 < rent. You didn’t answer the other question and I see from another comment, you make $40K/year. Where I am in Ontario, that’s not much more than minimum wage ($16.55/h×7.5h/d×251d/year≃$31K/year). I’d highly recommend reviewing whether your pay and job satisfaction is worth what you spend on your commute!No, the commute and car ownership is literally cheaper than paying the extra rent.
My mom only charges me $500/month, last I looked rent for places that aren't even comparable to what I have now were about $1500/month, and my car is costing me about $250/month. That's a difference of $750/month, and my quality of life is way better.
What you're suggesting is completely unreasonable for me.
However I admit that my comment about homelessness is likely wrong on further analysis. But it remains to be seen what happens with the housing market in the intervening years.
I think you misunderstood my comment. I was agreeing with you. If you're staying with family, that's almost certainly financially better than getting your own place. What I was saying is that you didn't answer the second option: What if you got a job closer to home? You don't have to answer it here, but I'd just recommend reviewing it by yourself.
If you make $40K/year, your 37km commute probably costs you ~15% of your net income. Getting a slightly worse paying job within biking distance of your current home could leave more money in your pocket.
I see, I did misunderstand.
Unfortunately being in a small town means there are limited options, and most of them I've used already. Some I could go back to. But really this is about the best I've found.
The real option is to start a business, but I'm enjoying life more than I ever have at the moment, and I don't want to give that up and go back to working all the time. I probably will eventually, because I hate working for people who I think are stupider than I am.
You want me to live in neighboring city with all those twatheads, druggies, richers, shitty schools and terrible drivers? No thank you! - Anyone, anywhere lol.
Here in Nova Scotia, I'm not gear up to ride when slush is falling from the sky and the bike lanes don't get cleared.
You're literally describing the issue the video is talking about: infrastructure.
Infrastructure is only half of it. There's also weather conditions that you really can't ride in. Which happen quite a bit.
In ten+ years of winter cycling, I have found very few. The only thing that made me stop is freezing rain, and that happens rather rarely. There are conditions that would make me not what to drive too anyway. It's not an actually valid point.
Must be nice to live where freezing rain doesn't happen often.
How often do you get freezing rain where you are? Once a year? Twice a year? You're basing an entire transportation policy on unlikely events isn't particularly helpful nor insightful.
Late November til early April is freezing rain, slush, salt, black ice, a number of other unpleasant weather conditions for riding in, even in full wet weather gear that would keep a sailor dry. I mean, I mention the *province I live in, in my first comment in this thread. Weather is a constant issue for me, most people living on the north atlantic have these issues.
Where do you live that freezing rain only happens twice a year?
Edit: location
Montréal.
And by freezing rain I mean layers of ice on the ground, ice storms, etc. Not just cold rain.
I know what freezing rain is. Like I said it's common here during winter months.
-12.2 °C
It's not strictly speaking impossible to bike in below-freezing temperatures, although I'll concede that it's definitely not as fun as it is in spring/summer/autumn-conditions. It requires winter tyres and dressing approximately the same as for comparable winter sports, with more emphasis on warmer dressing for the extremeties. Hands in particular are very exposed when riding in winter, doubling up the gloves is a wise choice.
Note that winter biking doesn't have to replace every trip to be useful - I don't commute by bike in the current conditions, as transit is just a much better alternative during this season. I still use my bike to go shopping and for some other trips, further supporting the possibility of not having to own a car.
Ice, salt, snowbanks narrowing the road surface. I haven't seen a bicycle in months and I understand why.
It's definitely not as pleasant, and the required prep has led to a culture of not biking during winter conditions in many places.
Ice is often not a problem with studded tires - it can be, but it's rarely been my primary concern when out and about. Loosely packed snow - the kind where you sink down a bit - has been far more problematic.
Salt is a double-edged sword in many ways. It will corrode your bike a lot faster, so being good about cleaning becomes more important in winter, and you might want to have a separate winter-bike for the purpose. Salt improves road conditions as far as bikes are concerned though, making it on balance a good thing for the winter biker.
Snow banks narrowing the road surface is also a bit problematic in some places, in particular where there is no bike infrastructure in place. Taking the lane can be necessary in some cases.
And on the flip side of things, I live in Florida and biking as a primary method of transportation in the summer is just insane.
I do bike for exercise in the summer and 15 minutes will leave me drenched in sweat needing a shower.
Token recommendation for an ebike. It's awesome to be able to use a throttle on the scorching hot days, and lately I don't really use the throttle since it's cool
So what? It was like 13 °F here in Atlanta a few days ago and my wife biked to work anyway. And that's in the South, where we're not used to it!
If she can deal with it, you have no excuse.
How far is work for her?
Regardless of the weather, biking would turn a 25 min drive into an 1hr 25min ride. I’m already not gonna do that.
I agree with you that better mass transit is needed as much or more than bike infrastructure, but I want to check one of your assumptions.
I bike 9 miles to work every day in 38 minutes, the car trip is 20-25 minutes due to traffic. The key is an e-bike. I've put 3k miles on the bike and at this point it has paid for itself and then some. Cars are expensive to drive, maintain, and purchase. My wife and I share a car and I supplement it with an e-bike. Considering she was considering getting an expensive new car before we started sharing, we've probably saved $40-50k in the last 3 years by removing a car from the equation. (Cost of car, insurance, maintenance, energy use per mile).
E-bikes use such a tiny amount of electricity, I'll probably only use two tanks of gas worth of energy in it's lifetime, maybe less.
Over the course of the next 15-20 years, repeatedly buying and maintaining one less car will likely shave several years off retirement and the biking will keep me healthy in the meantime.
Edit: Like you I overestimated the burden of riding a bike before I tried to make it work. Now that I'm doing it, it's almost entirely a positive outcome.
Now you're just moving the goalposts.
“C’mon, just take an hour and a half to get to work”.
Notably, you didn’t answer the question.
Almost like this works for some and not others.