It's a free-to-play mobile gacha game. Therefore, it is trash. That point simply cannot be argued. It's not up for debate. If you're here to debate that point, please don't even bother. All mobile games are trash. All free-to-play games are trash. All gacha games are trash. Again: there is no debate about that.

Having gotten that out of the way: why are so many people under the false impression that this SPECIFIC trash game is somehow more than trash?

Does it have particularly sexy anime girls? Particularly sexy anime prettyboys? Cool mechs or something? Does it very sadly contain core elements of gameplay that would be fun in a non-trash setting?

Help me out, here.

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[–] Essence_of_Meh@lemmy.world 11 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I have a side question if you don't mind.

In multiple posts you mentioned how you expected people on fediverse to be "more principled" and how they can only support the smaller option or just give up and accept everything corps throw at them which is why you're surprised some play gacha games.

Does that expectation also extend to "normal" F2P games like Apex, Fortnite etc? Does it include people playing full-price AAA games? Titles like GTA, Diablo, Halo, majority of MMOs and more - games that not only are paid but also include season passes and micro transactions.

Should people also avoid those?

Just so we're clear, it's a genuine question. I have no skin in the game as I don't really play HSR, AAA games or really care what people expect from me but I'm curious about your perspective on things.

[–] TORFdot0@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I avoid those games. But I don't expect others to have the same tastes as me. I'm certainly not demanding people don't like those kind of games like OP seems to be doing about Honkai

[–] Essence_of_Meh@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

Which is totally fair - I feel like most (conjecture?) people who dislike such things will simply avoid these games and play other stuff.

OP focused on gacha games but didn't mention paid ones despite the fact many of them implement similar monetization schemes which is why I'm curious about their point of view on this.

[–] ChillDude69@lemmynsfw.com 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

My main problem is with F2P mobile games that have any kind of gambling mechanics associated with them, or any games that are set up to get you to pay endlessly for the privilege of playing the game, even though it's not marketed as a subscription service game.

World of Warships, World of Tanks, and War Thunder are the big non-mobile offenders, in this regard.

Games like Fortnite and Apex are just on the acceptable side of things, because they're mainly selling cosmetics. They're not claiming to be free, then blocking off large sections of the game behind grind-fests, which you can then get rid of with paywalls. As far as I know, you can play all the Apex and Fortnite you want, and the only temptation to spend money is based on "oooh, I want that cool-looking thing."

Resisting the impulse to buy a cool-looking thing is everyone's own responsibility. Therefore, selling cool-looking things isn't unethical. Getting someone addicted to gambling and/or using Skinnerian conditioning to slowly acclimatize them to paying for a "free" game is NOT okay.

[–] Essence_of_Meh@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Alright, that cleared up some things, thanks. I assume FIFA's (well, EA's FC) Ultimate Team also falls under that umbrella since it's straight up rolling for power?

Since you're fine with cosmetics what about mobile/gacha games that are primarily that?

For example, I play a game called Girls Frontline - I didn't pay anything yet have all bar 3 characters (the missing ones can be farmed on stages I haven't played yet) with most of them leveled up and equipped for pretty much any available content. There's no stamina that needs to be refilled and events have 3 difficulty levels to allow even new(ish) players to complete the story. The main monetary incentive here comes from skins (which can also be obtained using saved up resources). Would a game like this be alright according to your perspective?

While majority of gacha can absolutely be predatory there are more titles like that within the "genre" which is why I'm interested in your focus on mobile titles. Sorry if it sounds like I'm trying to look for a "gotcha" or something like that - that's not my intention.

[–] ChillDude69@lemmynsfw.com 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The Girls Frontline game seems to occupy basically the same space as Fortnite, from what you're saying. Also, I really appreciate the fact that you're questioning my position in a constructive way, unlike a lot of the people here, who basically jumped at me, automatically taking a de facto position of defending all gacha games, no matter how predatory.

Being asked these questions in a constructive manner isn't just more polite, it IS actually constructive. It's helping me to refine and understand my own position. I strive to be consistent and logic-driven, in my opinions, but nobody's perfect. I can admit that some of my views may be somewhat emotion-based, and can be specified and sharpened based on discussion.

I think the most important thing to avoid, if you don't want to be playing a game that's unethical (and maybe even dangerous) is anything that combines a stamina refilling, gameplay limiting mechanic AND a pay-to-roll gacha mechanic. The worst of those being the kind where the common characters (or weapons, mechs, cars, etc) are super-duper weak, compared to the rare and overpowered characters.

Either one of those mechanics can be bad, especially if it's tied to spending money. Combining them together is extra bad. It's even worse if the game continually markets itself as "free."

If a game has no stamina-based playtime-limiting mechanic AND the unlockable characters/skins are entirely (or almost entirely) cosmetic, I figure it's basically fine.

[–] Essence_of_Meh@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

I'm glad I could give you a chance to expand on your view in a more neutral manner. I like discussing things and learning other people's points of view so I try to approach online discussion in a positive and open-minded way. It's not always easy but I try.

I think the main reason people jumped on you so easily was the tone of your OP and some of the more heated comments - they come off like you aren't really interested in an explanation but rather looking for affirmation in shit talking other people's interest in those games. Feeling strongly about a topic can be a detriment at times and it's an easy way to derail a decent topic for a conversation.

That said, seems like we're pretty much on the same page even if I don't feel as strongly towards the disliked parts of the industry as you do. I simply stick to titles that don't punish me for not spending ever increasing amounts of money.