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Bernie Sanders to voters skipping presidential election over Israel: ‘Trump is even worse’
(www.nbcnews.com)
this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2024
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Many thousands of us dont vote for genociders of any party. "What part of that do you not understand". Support genocide, then we dont support you, full stop.
The two party system is a broken system. You do not choose who you support. You vote against who you dislike the most. It's a shit system, but wasting your vote is more akin to supporting Trump than voting for Harris is to supporting Harris.
My vote is one of many who think this way. When you stand alone you are unempowered yes, but when you have a lot of people behind you then you're a movement and you have power. The anti genocide movement has power that Harris needs to win, Our votes are there for the taking, and its up to Harrsi to choose whether she'll pick AIPAC or us. If she picks AIPAC and the destruction of our republic, then thats on her. IF the continuation of our system of government depends on bribery to do the murder of innocents, then its time to change our system of government.
Our system of government is fundamentally rotten and needs to be changed in general regardless of Harris. Not voting, resulting in putting a fascist in power isn't how you do that.
Allowing yourself to be steered by maneuvered into giving away your once every 4 years bit of negotiating ability is not the way you do that.
If you think your only bit of "negotiating ability" is once every four years, you're doing it wrong. Not only that, if you think not voting is doing anything to change anything, you're actually just a straight up moron. Protests, local elections, pressuring representatives. If you actually care and aren't just virtue signaling, do shit that matters.
So wasting the chance to pressure our candidate in a close election is moronic huh. Alrighty friend.
I like how you list "pressuring representitives" on your list of "shit that matters". Right next to "protests". ... I am literally pressuring our representative.
Like you're doing?
But yeah let me know how your letter writing and sign holding campaign goes in the face of AIPAC domination of our entire governmental system. I am sure you will be successful with such bold and timely measures. Hey have you tried a call in campaign to representitives's interns? I'm sure they just need to know what you think in order to choose to do the right thing.
And you let me know how abstaining from voting goes for you when Trump is elected. Cheers.
willdo. cheers.
Right, but the trolley thing is apt here. There is no option to just stop using the trolley because it's not safe, it's a runaway trolley with too much momentum to slow down. All you can really do is decide which track it goes down, and pick the less lethal path.
Harris could steer the trolley so it doesnt hit anyone. She's not trapped on an out of control trolley car at all-- She is driving the effing thing and has full control.
A vote isn't an endorsement, you are not personally responsible for the actions of the people you vote for - otherwise trump voters would be in deep shit. Even if you vote for the best politician the world has ever seen that's still not you doing the politics and you're not responsible for it. The forces involved are simply larger than a single person.
A vote is a tool to be deployed tactically. Its powerful enough republicans are looking for ways to prevent you from having it.
Look at it this way: Netanyahu would prefer Trump win because he might get more support and expand the genocide of palestinians to US soil. A vote for Kamala likely won't improve Gaza but it will deny Netanyahu things he wants.
Tactically, there is efficacy in denying the butcher of gaza the things he wants even if it doesn't go as far as anyone needs it to. Why let Netanyahu win without a fight?
I dont agree. When soneone says they will do something terrible and you vote for them anyway, you have enabled it and have some of that outcome on your hands.
Then you commit to never voting. If you vote for Bernie people will say "oh he endorsed joe biden, he is complicit" but you don't get to choose the battlefield only the outcome of the battle.
Fundamentally a percentage of politicians will lie, or lack resources to fulfil promises. There is simply nobody on earth that can uphold the promise of never doing something terrible, even on accident.
I reject the idea that war crimes are always the only choice we have in any election. But if thats your slant, OK, why not push for a third option-- getting Harris to stop the shipments by applying voter pressure on her. The only time politicians care about what the elctorate thinks at all is right before a close election, like right now. Why are so many dems not pushing her to take a better stand than she has had?
I actually think stopping shipments is not going to achieve anything. Polling shows its popular (so I disagree that dems aren't pushing Kamala, Biden, etc) but if Israel just changes arms suppliers its easily undermined. And we don't even know if like there's conditions on shipments like "we won't use nuclear weapons on Gaza if the shipments continue" There's just too much we don't know to vote based solely on another country's actions.
I think a better policy is to just take in gazan refugees and make it harder for hardline israelis to visit the US. Do the pullout from vietnam movie script. Of course this is a less popular policy and it is one dems likely aren't getting pressure to do, even though its low risk and high preservation of human life.
Thats a flat out lie.
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/stop-us-arms-transfers-israel/
https://thecradle.co/articles-id/25363
https://www.commondreams.org/news/us-weapons-israel-2667435101
What exactly are you accusing of being a lie?
The quote I am replying to is at the top of my reply..
I think you misread the quoted text because its referencing a non-quoted line