this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2025
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This is not a question of about parroted nonsense and cultural norms. I mean what end product do they produce that justifies their existence in the first place.

I'm physically disabled and have been living in a prison like situation for nearly 11 years. How does my situation balance into the ethics of prisons? I'm on a path to homelessness and a premature death due to institutionalized neglect and abuse from US institutions. Criminals are housed and fed in exchange for similar isolation, abuse, danger, insurmountable debt, and a largely unemployable and destitute future. These seem to conflict in ethics.

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[–] kitnaht@lemmy.world 41 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

We've decided morally, that killing is wrong. So if killing is wrong, but we have to keep killers out of society, then we've got to put them in a place away from society. Somewhere along the way, we decided that killing isn't the only thing that requires you be separated from society.

You haven't committed a crime, therefore are free to succeed or fail at life all on your own. Society hasn't judged you, therefore society hasn't seen the need to take care of you either.

[–] Oisteink@feddit.nl 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

With a few exceptions of life sentences, this is not how prisons works. We have prisons to separate the bad apples for a while, and we use that time to rehabilitate the apples. Its not a perfect solution bit it works better than without prison.

Edit to clarify that this is about prison

[–] kitnaht@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Pretending that people get rehabilitated in prison, LOLOL

That's some LARP level imagination you got there.

[–] Oisteink@feddit.nl 15 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world, around 20% within five years of release.

[–] Jimmycakes@lemmy.world -1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They probably got the lowest crime rates in the world. American criminals hit different

[–] Oisteink@feddit.nl 2 points 1 day ago

So its about race and not system?

[–] kitnaht@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

This clearly says US Institutions.

I'm on a path to homelessness and a premature death due to institutionalized neglect and abuse from US institutions.

This person wouldn't be posting here if they were from Norway.

[–] Akasazh@feddit.nl 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The question was about prisons in general, their personal experience being the basis of them questioning the ethicality of the concept of prisons.

For that matter the Norwegian example is a perfect antithesis to the punitive American system.

Therefore they were absolutely on topic. You may freshen up on comprehensive reading.

[–] kitnaht@lemmy.world -1 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

Norway is an exception to the rule. Not a generalized example. Calling out an edge case, doesn't change all of the generalized cases.

[–] Akasazh@feddit.nl 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Yes thats what an antithesis is.

[–] kitnaht@lemmy.world -1 points 18 hours ago (1 children)
[–] Akasazh@feddit.nl 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

No it (and multiple other re-intergration based incareration systems are more effective and socially health than the punitive system the USA uses.

Anserweing OP's question if incareration can be made more ethical than is currently the case in the USA.

It's quite on topic really.

[–] kitnaht@lemmy.world -1 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

if incareration can be made more ethical than is currently the case in the USA

You go ahead and get right on that. Let me know how that goes.

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 1 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

Wow, so your answer is to... not even attempt anything? Just declare "nope, that's impossible (despite evidence to the contrary) so why bother trying"?

Let me know how that goes...

[–] Akasazh@feddit.nl 0 points 15 hours ago

It's clear that, in this case, the education system could use some updating, too.

[–] kitnaht@lemmy.world -1 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

Are you attempting anything? Because bitching about it on the internet isn't far from doing nothing. What have you done in your life to change the US prison system? I'd love to hear it.

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 1 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (1 children)

Because bitching about it on the internet isn't far from doing nothing

So youre saying "bitching online" does have an effect, since it's not nothing, by your own admission?

[–] kitnaht@lemmy.world 0 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

You know how 0.9999999999999999999999999~ = 1?

It's like that. A rounding error at best. So yes, in reality, nothing.

If all you're doing is bitching about it on the internet, then you are doing nothing and then acting virtuous about doing nothing.

YAY you have warm fuzzy thoughts and feelings! Congratulations you're a "good person"!

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

So you're saying it isn't nothing, right? That's what you said, yes?

[–] kitnaht@lemmy.world 0 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

in reality, nothing

Did you miss that part?

then you are doing nothing

Or that part?

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

So... you're going back on your own words?

Brave of you to admit such things aloud. I'd be ashamed to do that much less admit to doing that.

Or is it that you're trying to say that speaking up about things you care about doesn't make a difference to anything?

[–] kitnaht@lemmy.world 0 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

You should read your own link. Nowhere in there does it list "bitching about something in a dark corner of the internet on a private forum"

All of the examples listed -- kinda require you getting out of your chair and you know doing something.

But you haven't, and won't. And instead of admitting that, you're going to argue what the definition of "doing something" means. You're not stupid. You know you haven't ever done anything, you know that nothing in your life has contributed at all to the subject matter at hand.

But also I know you haven't done anything either, and that calls into question your virtues, and that ruffles your feathers.

It's not enough to just have "good thoughts". I at least realize that the herculean effort required to achieve such change is beyond the average persons capabilities or even desires. That doesn't make me a bad person, just someone who understands the reality of the situation at hand.

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago

Oh, so you are going back on your own words?

tut, tut

[–] Oisteink@feddit.nl 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

My reply was about what prisons are. I was not replying to OP

[–] kitnaht@lemmy.world -4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Congratulations, you're not on topic then.

[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

So you have incentivised crime against society for survival.

[–] kitnaht@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

That actually happens btw. There are homeless that will commit crimes, so they get arrested, so that they have a couple of free nights of not freezing to death in the cold.

I haven't incentivized crime, but yes our current institutions do so.