this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023
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Fuck Cars

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A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!

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[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Some nations that experience harsh winters have well maintained bicycle infrastructure year round. Access to effecient, maintained, and safe bicycle infrastructure is the biggest factor preventing or enabling cycling.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Biking in sub-zero temperatures when it isn't even safe to be exposed outside for more than a few minutes (also happens here in the winter) is not a good idea either.

Again, I am all about bikes. I think bikes should be widely adopted. I would also never ride one in winter conditions here no matter how well the infrastructure is maintained. Have you ever seen a road plowed after there's been a huge snowfall? Keeping a bike lane clear is not especially reasonable an expectation for a snowplow.

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU?si=xm6kjWjVBJnN-iz_

Most bike lanes get a differnet treatment creating a tightly packed snow surface to pedal on.

Safe bicycle infrastructure does not equal bicycle gutters. Bicycle gutters are unsafe on most roads even in the summer and were designed without winter maintaince as a consideration.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Skipping through the video, those look like roads dedicated to bicycles. Unless you repurpose an entire city to be bicycle only, which is a very unlikely scenario in most places in this world with harsh winters, that really doesn't apply to the way snowplows usually work.

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Roads dedicated to bicycles"

What do you think good, safe and dedicated bicycle infrastructure looks like? Cars and bicycles has vastly different needs and therefore should have differently built roadways.

When your city repaves its 4-6 lane roads, it has the choice to change some of those car lanes to bicycle/pedestrian/multiuse paths.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

How do you think you build a good, safe and dedicated bicycle infrastructure in a city which has not been designed for it? There are roads here, like the one where my office is, that only have one access route. How do even get the delivery trucks in if you make that only road bike-only? And if you say "just build another road," who is going to pay for that?

Also, almost every road here has two lanes, one in each direction.

[–] uniqueid198x@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 year ago

No bike friendly city, and very few advocates for them, are suggesting to ban motor vehicles entirely. Rather, we can structure infrastrucrue to serve both, instead of just cars.

A 4 lane stroad can be turned into a two lane, limited access road with protected, separated bike lane and a median. This actually improves auto throughput, travel times, and emissions.

A 2 lane residential street can have restricted parking, narrower right of way, and wide rsidewalks. This naturally slows cars, making shared right of way safer for all.

A pedestrian zone can have moveable bollards, so that deliveries and mobility services can still access, whil keeping the street safe for people.

In all these cases, its not about bulldozing buildings, its about changing the way we use existing land.

[–] AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How do you think you build a good, safe and dedicated bicycle infrastructure in a city which has not been designed for it?

The Netherlands did it. Just change construction requirements/guidelines, zoning, etc, get some biking activists, and wait 50 years. All of these problems have already been solved.

And to answer your specific question, I think they normally close off roads to regular cars but let delivery vehicles go through. In the short amount of time the vehicle is there, people just bike/walk around it. And they also make smaller delivery vehicles, including branded cargo bikes for when the situation fits.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

and wait 50 years

Because we all know cities are usually able to plan things 50 years in advance...

[–] AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

No. Because infrastructure needs to be replaced every so often and after 50 years you’ll have gone through most of it. 50 years ago is around when the Netherlands switched from building car infrastructure to also building bike infrastructure.