Games
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Setting aside prices, I've seen an unexpected amount of sourness directed at the first game. While the first game wasn't a greatest of all time RPG and had flaws, I found it overall enjoyable enough and it was clearly a project with some passion that I didn't regret sinking time into it.
I expect similar of the sequel, with hopefully improvements based on feedback from the first game. I plan to have fun with the game, and it is a bit tiring to see things like the pricing prompting people to badmouth the game itself when they are separate things.
Am I going to pay $80? No. No I'm not. This is a single player RPG though. There's no FOMO of getting left behind on the multiplayer unlocks or the lore of a new season. It's a singleplayer game. Put it on the wishlist and buy it on a sale. Simple as.
The first game wasn't bad, but it didn't really feel like a full price title.
What does that even mean? And what do you consider "full price worthy" in that case?
They probably meant that it felt like a game that was stripped down and shallow compared to similar AAA "full price" games and I completely agree. After playing the first one, I wouldn't only consider buying this new game if it was at least 50% off.
To be clear, I find this rhetoric pretty silly given that price has no influence over a game's intrinsic qualities and vice versa.
I'm not arguing for games to be priced higher either, because a lot of that money likely wouldn't end up going to the devs, but I think the price argument doesn't stand either way.
Pricetag sets expectations, simple as that. It is documented that no matter the product, people have more trust in a more expensive product than a cheaper one, even if they are actually identical. And thus, people also rightfully expect more of a more expensive product. Let's talk about cars for example : if I buy an old overused small one just to get from point A to point B, I'll be absolutely satisfied if I paid a few hundred bucks, and absolutely not if I paid a few thousands.
Same with games, if I have a small indie game entertain me somewhat for a few hours, I'll be super okay if it cost me a few bucks, and super not ok if it cost me 60 or 80 euros. The intrinsic quality may not change, but that was never what was discussed in the first place.
I think the equivalence doesn't apply, because a car is a functional product and you should expect price to correlate with added features.
Indie games, as well as AAA, can offer similar quality levels at wildly different prices, so price doesn't (shouldn't) enter the equation imo.
Quality, possible enjoyment and my tastes are what I take into account when buying a game or not, not its price point, so that might be the difference.
So, just so I am clear, you think that it is silly to want different amounts of quality or value from products based on how they are priced?
That's not what I'm saying.
What I find silly is to expect price to correlate with quality in the video game space, because you have Indies as well as AAA, with wildly different prices, ultimately offering similar qualities. Price shouldn't come into the equation when talking about a game's quality or "value" imo.
I guess this is just a difference in how we look at it. I have for decades now used what I perceive as quality/value to decide whether I should buy a game or whether it may be worth if later if it goes on a steep sale. For example, some AAA game that get polarizing reviews or is known to be very short might be an instance where I'd be not be inclined to pay full price because to me, it wasn't worth the price. Raising the price of a game to $80 means that I personally will want more value out of it. I just bought a game on Steam yesterday for $20 on sale, which was to me worthwhile. If it had been $80, there is no way I would have bought it.
I've always maintained that the first was a fine game that was tanked by the price. It was priced to drive gamepass subs, not sell the game. At $35-40, it would have been received much better, imo. Years later, now that it's more appropriately priced, it seems to be more well-reviewed.
Unfortunately the second is going down the same path. It may take 5+ years for the game to be appreciated to its fullest (assuming no glaring issues), through no fault of the devs.
It was a fine game that was tanked by the massive inconsistency of its quality as you progressed. The game starts out absolutely fantastic, but the quality takes a very sharp and sudden fall after a few hours, and then it just sorta ends not long after. It was a very weird experience. Definitely felt like something went very wrong during development and they had to make big changes.
I tried giving it a chance but it just felt like a bad Fallout 3 with Borderlands writing. Got to like the third planet I think and I dropped it.
I really liked Avowed though, which elicited similar reactions.
The expectation that it was an open world modern style Fallout game does seem to be a theme among people who didn't like it. That wasn't helped by pre-release marketing that emphasized it came from the studio that made New Vegas (despite the writers and game leads all being different).
I went in to the game without expectations and found the structure of the game closer to a classic BioWare RPG. Rather than a single huge open world it was a series of curated hubs to travel between. At those hubs there was space to explore but it was more limited and curated than a full open world. The more curated approach meant that the game could be designed with certain builds in mind since players would interact with certain areas coming from known directions, allowing alternate routes or quest solutions for different builds to be placed.
Accepting it as a hub based RPG that leaned into a specialized build made the game click for me.
Yes, exactly. It followed that formula, not Fallout. That probably should have been made more clear so people wouldn't be making a comparison that didn't fit at all.
I don’t think it was the lack of open world that put me off from it, as I’ve always preferred hub based games ever since Dragon Age Origins. I think it was just the writing honestly. I don’t like the whole “le soooo epic zany & ttlly rndm” writing that it shares with Borderlands. I don’t find it funny, endearing nor entertaining. It’s just annoying to me and it was everywhere at the time because millennial culture was at its height.
I wouldn't categorize it that way at all. It extrapolated nationality to one's employer and religion to the law. It was unsubtle in its views of classism and such, in a way that I appreciated, but it wasn't just doing zany things "just because", unless you've got a good example that's slipping my mind.
My critique is not of the content itself but rather it’s presentation, and its over reliance on what I can only call “millennial humor”.
I can't say I follow you. I would call it satire rather than "totally random", but if you didn't care for the writing, you didn't care for the writing.
Besides that I just kept feeling like it was "been here, done that". I remember at one point there is a small village and you have to choose to pull their power source or leave it and it felt so damn familiar, I didn't bother continuing much past that. I felt like if I hadn't played a bunch of elder scrolls and fallout games it was probably great but for me it was so much retreading old ground I couldn't stay interested.
That’s literally one of the first missions 😭
...yup. I didn't get far. I vaguely remember there were a bunch of other little things but that one drove it home. It was literally a tamer version of fallout 3 opening.
I feel like Outer Worlds at least tried to have a message. But they got scared and pulled away and gave up before the end. It starts way stronger than Fallout 3 imo. At least when it comes to writing and story. It’s of course not a SERIOUS game, but it tries to say something even if it does give up. In my experience Bethesda games are allergic to having a message or point.
I made it maybe 20 min before I un-installed. I don't vibe with Fallout in general (but I'll suffer through them) and with the writing style, just wasn't my thing. Maybe the 2nd one is a bit more polished and I can get into it cause I heard good things.
I know a lot of people hyped up Outer Worlds as a spiritual successor to New Vegas and were disappointed when it didn't reach the same heights of writing. Obsidian not being given any time to make New Vegas and then missing their contracted bonus payout by a single Metacritic point was brought up a lot before release, and gamers trumpeted this new game as what Obsidian could have made without Bethesda mismanagement. Then it came out and had the temerity to be average, leaving fans acting like they'd somehow been betrayed by Obsidian.
It wasn't Obsidian's or the game's fault that people decided it had to be a 10/10 masterpiece, it just got caught up in a stupid fanbase war against Bethesda and its reputation suffered when it couldn't meet people's sky-high expectations.
Obsidian themselves were hyping it up...
The first game was like RPG soul food. It didn't do anything new, the gameplay was fine and the story wasn't bad. Nothing innovative but nothing poorly executed. I think people should look to the game as explanation for why Nintendo doesn't make the 'normal Mario game' they want. Innovation is the simplest way to dress up a game, even if you like the loop it's healthier if the sequel is different.
I honestly don't know why so many game journalists and bloggers are obsessed with innovations, and judge games based on that. A game doesn't need to reinvent a genre to be good and enjoyable.
Not every game needs to reinvent the wheel. You're absolutely right.
However, games that ask me to spend $80 absolutely need to bring something exceptional to the table.
The first game got heat for no other reason than it was an Epic exclusive. Pissy pants gamers were upset it wasn't on their monopoly.
I got it for cheap layer (I almost never buy new games) and found it kinda shallow and boring. I wanted to like it, I love the theme and settings but ehhhhhhhhh
It was hyped up to be Space Fallout and I did not get Space Fallout out of it. Even like… Space Bad Fallout. I just got mediocre space game.
It also wasn't up to the obsidian standards we come to expect.
But then again i understand not being able to realise it was not a well written or designed game as a large chunk of people think starfield wasn't that bad.
Also it was just... Boring.