this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2023
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Kinda stunned no one's said Dwight Howard. By 26, he had racked up 8xAll Star, 8xAll NBA including 5 straight first teams, 3x DPOY, 5x Rebounding champ, 2x block champ, and a finals appearance. By 28, he was essentially a washed-up big body to throw at other centers, bouncing around team to team barely clinging to the league.
Calling him washed by 28 is bullshit. In 2017-18 he was still averaging 17 and 12 while playing great defense.
Prime Dwight was a beast. Bowling ball shoulders and a 7 footer who can jump like a gazelle.
You mean by 28?… at 26 he had 6 all stars. He earned his last all-star selection at 28
Not top 75 apparently
28*
It largely had to do with him hurting his back and being pressured to come back (*cough* Kobe) way too soon
He could’ve retired at 26 and would’ve been a HOF
Bullshit. He was still really good in Houston, just not posting as gaudy of stat lines. He wasn’t just straight up bad until his last year in Houston when he developed pretty serious back problems
He got a ring in those 12 years. And he‘ll still be a first ballot Hall of Famer
should have been top 75 tho
Yeah his and other omissions from the list hurts the legacy of the list rather than Dwight Howard. People will clown the list and Adam silver for years for the atrocity that list is.
I have not seen that list talked about as an honor, most discussions I see are around Dwight, Jokic and others not being on the list and how bad it is.
*76
Still pisses me off. It's so clear that I'm convinced he made the wrong people mad behind the scenes. I just don't get it
how dame got over him still bugs me :(
I have a Dame jersey and idk how he made it
I understand the respect factor but rankings like this change over time. They really should have done it properly and removed some of the top 50 guys from 1996 who objectively wouldn't be top 75 in 2022. So instead of Dame or AD it should have been one of the old timers who aren't objective good enough.
Since they just kept the top 50 from 1996 out of respect and added 25 new players.
HUUUHH DAME OUTTA EVERYONE?
And AD like wtf?? Dwight is unbelievably clear accolades wise
AD had absolutely no business getting in over Dwight. That was ridiculous.
Why is AD the frame of reference? Dwight was a no brains top 75 but AD clearly belongs too.
AD still deserved it over Dame, Melo, and some of those guys from the 70s (Lenny Wilkens, Earl Monroe, Dave Bing, Pete Maravich, and probably Dave DeBusschere)
I was on your side until you said pistol pete .. you take that back!!!
Insane take.
Pick any one part that I was wrong about.
AD over Dame is fine. The rest are wrong. Your list just shows you have recency bias and didn't care to learn about NBA history, so me commenting here isn't going to fix that.
Melo is absolutely top 75 player, he's #9 all-time scoring and is one of the greatest isolation scorers the game has seen.
I have great respect for the legends of NBA history. I love learning about those guys. I read the Book of Basketball by Bill Simmons twice. Not to say that means I agree with most of his opinions, because I don’t — but it contains numerous descriptions of and anecdotes about older players. Thinking Basketball’s greatest peaks series are some of my favorite videos.
Notice how I left out most of the older players. Because I put a certain amount of thought into that list. To suggest that I don’t care to learn about NBA history is baseless. You seem to have a bias the opposite way that you are accusing me of having. Look at Dame and Earl. There’s a sizable gap between their statistical footprints. Dame already has more points in the regular season and playoffs despite playing fewer minutes in both and he is more efficient, even relative to their eras.
As for Carmelo versus AD, I think it comes down to how much you value longevity vs. peak value. Melo’s greatest value obviously came from his scoring, but I’m not convinced he was a better scorer than AD. That might sound crazy, but just look at their peak playoff stats: 2009-2011 Carmelo Anthony (1,022 minutes)- 27.3 Points per 75 possessions, +1.6 relative True Shooting Percentage 2015-2020 Anthony Davis (1,299 minutes) - 27.7 PTS/75, +8.1 rTS%
That is a huge difference in efficiency. And then when you add on AD’s defensive impact it becomes clear to me that AD is better. And this is reflected by the fact that AD has 4 1st team All-NBA selections while Melo only cracked the 2nd team twice.
You had me until you said ad is a better scorer than melo because he’s more efficient in the playoffs? Yeah he better be, he’s a big man who doesn’t create nearly as many of his own shots and posted. He also played a large majority of those games next to bron
Off-ball scoring can still be valuable scoring. There is something to be said for being valuable beside other all-time offensive players. Carmelo was great on his own but it’s unlikely that he could’ve amplified the talent of a ball-dominant talent like AD did with his rolling to the basket. And it’s unknown if Melo could be a #1 on a championship offense. He was a guy who had the ball in his hands a lot but was never a very good playmaker.
And the difference between AD and 99% of play-finished bigs is that he also has elite scoring volume.
Like I said, it depends how you value longevity versus peak. I think that players have more valuable careers when they rack up a handful of strong all-NBA and/or MVP-level seasons over players who have several All-NBA / All-Star level seasons.
I agree that it depends on how you value longevity vs peak but you literally made the criteria so specific that it perfectly caters to the insane playoff (since you made it playoff only) run peak AD went on with Bron (plays like 2/3 of his games you listed in 1 year) resulting in a boosted efficiency. The framing sounds misleading
Idt you’re going to convince me that a boost in efficiency because of his off-ball rim-running abilities or gimme dunks makes him a better scorer than melo
I almost believed you appreciated legends until you started quoting advanced statistics.
AD deserving it over the 9th most scoring player of all time is a crazy take. AD is the most overrated modern player. He’s had great peaks but overall career is absolutely not a top 75. Not even gonna get into the Pistol Pete stuff.
AD's the better player tho 👀
He really is. The fact that ppl are downvoting you and tryna deny that is ridiculous. Ppl just blinded by hate and didn’t even watch Dwight, he barely had an offensive game lmao
He got hurt and game changed after 2015. He still had some run after his 26 tho, it wasn't that obvious that he was useless, his firsts Houston seasons he still had dominant playoffs runs for example
Agree with everything except the last part. He wasn’t barely clinging. He was still a walking double double and high end rim protector. He went from top ten to role player, but his attitude was more an issue than anything. He fixed that though and contributed majorly to getting his ring.
Yeah that comment is crazy. Dwight went from the best big in the league to maybe the 2nd or 3rd best big in the league when he was in Houston. He wasn’t really bouncing around until he left Houston and even then he was just on bad teams, I don’t know that he was some massive cancer. I think he was just annoying to be around but moreso before he accepted that he wasn’t a superstar.
The guy is still like a top 10 center of all time possibly.
Yeah I didn’t feel like getting to in depth, but he really had classic case of being a superstar then regressing a bit, and too proud to accept a lesser role for a time. We’ve seen that story a million times (Iverson,melo,russ,etc). He got it together though
Ooooh... interesting.
Top 10 centers all time?
Kareem
Bill Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem
Then after:
Moses Malone
David Robinson
Maybe a toss up between old and new centers:
Mikan, Jokic, Dwight, McAdoo, Parish, Willis Reed.
This is a hard one.
Maybe top 12-15 would be more app. Because Jokic almost certainly is on pace to be in the top 10 or even top 5. You also need to throw Ewing in there. And I think Embiid is going to be remembered way better than he’s currently viewed, especially if he has more playoff success at some point.
But either way, Dwight is in the pantheon of all time centers.
basically injuries. took him awhile to adapt his game
At 28 he was an all star. 29 he was a 16 and and 10 a night. 30 and 31 he still had like 13-14 pts and 12-13 rebounds a night. At 32 he was back to 16.5 and 10. He fell off in his age 33 season (which was 15 years in). He wasn’t a superstar after 26 but he didn’t suck.
You mean by 28 he racked up 8x All star & by 30 he was washed up.
Dwight was 28 when got selected for his last all star and all nba selection tho. At 26 he only had racked up 6 all star and all nba selections. He was third team all nba and second team all nba at age 27 and 28 respectfully. And he was still a walking double double for several years after that tbh. I still remember 32 year old Dwight Howard's 30/30 game.