this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2025
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I think you could be a bit more generous in your interpretation of other peoples ideas. Unless this is a bit, in which case I think you got lost in it. I think you make a good point, its def a supportable argument, and I don't really agree with pyre. The way you confront them though, call them a coward, a child, you're like attacking their humanity, their autonomy and freedom. Granted it was partially a negative response to "this is why libs always lose" which is also not a great way to engage online.
I just want to draw attention to how quickly that devolved it was like one or two exchanges before you start infantalizing and displacing onto them. If you really think the other person is "a child" then maybe you would be inclined to educate them? Also I wonder if you would be willing to reckon with the fact that on certain issues there is a good chance that there are many many people who are much more advanced than you are, who might view your short fuse and quickness to retreat into a self defined humanist camp, as a sign of immaturity too.
I'm not saying I'm immune or better, I've committed similar, in fact much worse examples in like the past 3 weeks or so. So maybe I'm pointing out a speck with a beam in my own eye. But I think there is a tendency to mischaracterize other peoples positions as completely arbitrary and like the worst possible interpretation, in order to make our own arguments seem stronger. In my experience this can mean we are actually insecure in our own positions, and responding to feelings of insecurity, with expressions of indignance. So in my own case I'm trying to improve things about how to carry out discussions. There's no guardrails other than shitty moderation (jk love you mods), so we have to set our own
To add to what @Stamets@lemmy.world said, calling them a child or a coward is a reference to their current state or behavior, not their intrinsic nature, which can absolutely be called out. If you can call out Nazis for being Nazis, you can call out cowards for being cowards. They can both choose to be otherwise.
I am done treating people with childrens gloves, I am done trying to educate, I am done trying to speak to someone calmly when they're being an antagonistic little twerp, and I am certainly not going to keep taking the high road as that's what you're arguing. I've been taking the high road for my entire life. You know where it got me?
My mother using me as a picture prop but never actually treating me like a person, no gifts, no hugs, no love until she disowned me for being gay. My foster family using me and ignoring every word I said while pretending to pay attention. The dude I love doing the same thing to me. My best friend leaving me high and dry last week with a $700 bill to figure out last second, having to rely on the generosity of the friends I do not remotely deserve so I could keep existing because she, like everyone else, has never given a singular fuck about me or anything I say. The only times I've ever had anyone at least listen to me instead of dismiss it outright is when I start slapping back. Because someone might hate me but they'll remember me and they'll at least remember the point I made. And if they want to continue being a bitter little bitch after having some common sense slapped into them, then fine. They weren't worth the time in the first place to bother with. But anyone else with half a brain cell will just go "Okay well Stamets is a dick but he's not wrong." And fuck it. I am a dick. I am bitter and angry and frustrated and furious and lonely and tired and I do not have any patience left anymore, any hope left anymore or any willpower to not tell someone they're being an idiot when they're being an idiot. Am I going to die alone for it? Sure but I knew that anyway so who gives a shit.
So if you want to take the high road, fine. It's a great view, don't get me wrong but the only people who set up shop there are either people who believe themselves to be above it all and therefore beyond naive, like I was, or people who've paid for their spot and can ignore everything below them because they own a helicopter. No business is done. It's just residential.
And because tone via text is hard to elaborate, the message should be read with the tone of emotional and physical exhaustion but not malice, rage or anything towards you personally.
Very fair! Earlier this year I got involved with a social movement that was incredibly exhausting. And yeah I was trying to do outreach, education, all that good shit. The people who really needed to be gotten through to just would not listen to anybody about anything. I was only ever able to organize some folx who the movement rejected, or who rejected that movement. And even then, I think when those ppl needed me I didn't have the energy to help because I was so exhausted by peoples stubborn ignorance.
Anyway, really sorry to hear about your struggles. I've known people who got kicked out of their parents for being who they are, and having to fend for themselves. It takes a huge toll. But it sounds like you've got a really great support system too.
In any case, sorry if I came off lecture-y. Thanks for sharing your insights