Can confirm. Just switched to Linux about 2 weeks ago. I am happy enough, but there was a brutal learning curve. This was for a distro that is user friendly, too. I was able to install just fine, but actually getting my environment set up is an ongoing process.

Many Linux distros are getting there, but they still aren't ready for casual users.

[–] meldrik@lemmy.wtf 21 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Wouldn’t you have the same experience if you moved from iOS to Android, never having used Android before? Does that make Android not ready for casual use?

If you have used Windows your whole life, there will definitely be a learning curve getting used to Linux and whatever desktop environment you choose to use.

I personally have better experience having casual users use Linux than Windows.

[–] TheRealKuni@piefed.social 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

In fact, one has a similar learning curve going from Android to iOS (as I learned when I transitioned to iPhone) even if iOS is broadly considered more “user friendly.”

I think you’re onto something. Switching to Windows would be painful to anyone used to Linux regardless of all the philosophical differences simply because the OS works differently. Lord knows I despise MacOS despite people who use it saying, “it just works.”

[–] meldrik@lemmy.wtf 6 points 1 week ago

I was only using "from iOS to Android" as an example. I believe it would be equally difficult going from Android to iOS. As you, I also despise using MacOS. It's a struggle, because I'm not used to it in any way.

[–] Shirasho@lemmings.world 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

There is a difference between going from a GUI based OS to a hybrid GUI/console OS.

For both iOS and Android the only difference is where things live. The processes are still the same.

This is not the case with Windows and Linux. If you want to install something in Windows you go to a website and download an installer. For Linux, you find out if there is a package. If not you go to a website and see if there is an app image or zip file. You then need to know where to place the downloaded file, how to get it running (making it executable), knowing how to chmod and chown (it is better to have to do it like in Linux, but it is an extra step), and how to add it to your desktop (there is no right+click and add to desktop/create shortcut option in Arch based distros like there is on Windows). If there is a service component you may need to go into command line and systemctl to enable it.

Your comparison to iOS and Android is not really appropriate.

[–] KeenFlame@feddit.nu 0 points 5 days ago

You can download and run anything on Linux the exact same way as in Windows. One has all features of the others but more, it's comparable because it literally is better on every account

[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

For Linux, you find out if there is a package. If not you go to a website and see if there is an app image or zip file. You then need to know where to place the downloaded file, how to get it running (making it executable), knowing how to chmod and chown (it is better to have to do it like in Linux, but it is an extra step), and how to add it to your desktop (there is no right+click and add to desktop/create shortcut option in Arch based distros like there is on Windows). If there is a service component you may need to go into command line and systemctl to enable it.

I don't think I've ever followed that workflow to be honest. Except for when doing something niche and way above and beyond something a casual user would do.

Open the software center, search what you want. Click install. Done. I use the terminal to the same effect but that's by preference. Installing packages as you described is not at all recommended... They won't update with the system.

The "add to desktop" thing really depends on your Desktop Environment too. GNOME not really, KDE and most others yeah.

[–] hraegsvelmir@ani.social 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I don’t think I’ve ever followed that workflow to be honest. Except for when doing something niche and way above and beyond something a casual user would do.

I don't think I've ever actually done that after maybe 2010. Package managers are awesome, and package availability is better than ever. Linux has improved massively in this regard since then, but its reputation still seems to be stuck in the "Well, if you're serious about using Linux, you're wasting your time with Ubuntu. You should install Gentoo and build everything yourself!" era.

Even on the odd occasion that I'm unable to find something in the repos, I'd sooner just find the project's git repo, clone it and build it. Most of the time now, they have some sort of automated helper script that will build and install the package for you, and when they don't, you've gone way off the beaten path and left behind any semblance of pretending to be an average user. But, hey, at least make isn't a terribly difficult command to use.

[–] Croquette@sh.itjust.works 1 points 6 days ago

When I have to use a Windows machine for whatever reason, the first thing I do is to install Chocolatey so that I can have a decent package manager.

[–] tomiant@piefed.social 12 points 1 week ago

I've been using Linux for 20 years. The learning curve is still too steep for me.

[–] orygin@piefed.social 12 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I'm curious what setup you have to do?
I do some customization of KDE on my desktop, but for my laptops it's always install and use without the need to setup anything.

[–] FoxyFerengi@startrek.website 4 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Which distros are you using on laptop? I have a gaming laptop, I've been procrastinating on the switch because I dont want to lose some things. I really enjoy the control software for the lights and fans that it came pre-installed with, for example

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

If anything, Linux gives you far more control over those things and it's usually much easier to do than in Windows.

I've been using Bazzite for gaming for over a year now and it's great. It is immutable though, so while you can do just about anything you can do in other distros, the process can be different.

I've seen a lot of people suggesting CachyOS lately for gaming, if you want something that isn't immutable.

[–] orygin@piefed.social 3 points 1 week ago

I don't use my laptops for gaming, only casual web browsing and the occasional 3d print or code script.
I have used fedora in the past but a failed update broke it, so I'm using cachyos now.
The only issue I had with the laptop, is that it's recognized as a 2-in-1 and sometimes would switch to the tablet mode which disabled the keyboard. Either I found how to disable it or cachy doesn't have the issue.

[–] meldrik@lemmy.wtf 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What gaming laptop is it? I had an ASUS Strix and it worked wonders with https://asus-linux.org/.

[–] FoxyFerengi@startrek.website 2 points 1 week ago

Acer Predator Triton

[–] Shirasho@lemmings.world 2 points 1 week ago

I am using CachyOS. I was able to find my way around because I knew what I needed to look up due to existing server experience, but a first time user would likely struggle a lot more.

[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 5 points 1 week ago

I don't think the learning curve is any harder than someone who's learning Windows for the first time.

It's just different. Honestly in some ways simpler IMO. But if you were a life long Mac user and touched Windows for the first time today you'd probably have a rougher time I think.

[–] UberKitten@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

get excited for a random system update to boot you to a GRUB rescue console soon!

[–] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

When was the last time you used Linux? And what distro was it? Your complaints are a decade out of date.

[–] UberKitten@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

this exact situation happened about 3 months ago to my partner on a modern distro

[–] Qwel@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

You should give the name of the distro rather than just say modern. Ubuntu is "modern" and they broke the auto-updates for everyone some months ago. It's more about stability than modernity

[–] UberKitten@lemmy.blahaj.zone -3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

oh, so when the Linux fanboys come out and say “you should switch to Linux, it’s easy!” they actually mean learn the decades long history of countless distributions, fork infighting, and an untold amount of software and hardware compatibility baggage, THEN switching will be easy! silly of me to make such a mistake!

[–] Qwel@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 week ago

No? I just said it would be nicer if you precised the name of the distro when you have an issue. This way I'm less likely to recommand an unstable distro. That's it.

You obviously can't be expected to know what distro is stable or not, I don't either

[–] curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Just curious here.... nvidia + kernel update and not using dkms?

[–] UberKitten@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

yes, Nvidia, and who knows for the rest. i think it was Debian-based, maybe Mint. they went back to Win11 after barely a month because it was so rough, despite years of experience with Linux.

[–] curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

This is what I meant by my comment here.

Thats a hardware related annoyance that I've even seen on commercially distributed versions of Linux, and if it were set up correctly, you wouldn't have even noticed (aside from a bunch of scrolling text during the next boot when the new kernel was loaded). I had a client where they couldn't even get to the console of the server for this reason. Once set up correctly though, those updates have chugged away in the background... but I digress.

I'm assuming you (and your partner) have no trouble at all navigating around and using linux, it was the (poorly managed) update process that gave you headaches. I think that is a perfectly reasonable complaint.

[–] UberKitten@lemmy.blahaj.zone -3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

of course the most popular graphics card manufacturer wouldn’t work out of the box on Linux! i would expect nothing less!

[–] curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Its mostly because of what nvidia does - the newer stuff has open source drivers, but this is a more recent thing (past year or so), but a good chunk of their libraries are still closed, their firmware is still closed, and anything not supported by the newer open source kernel modules has to use the proprietary drivers.

This is, unfortunately, outside of the control of the Linux kernel. And nvidia can be made to work just fine (I have a bunch of quadro cards for example) without dropping to the console, but that first setup to make it that way takes some knowledge. That, to me, is the big problem.

Thats also why you'll see a lot of intel gpu's and amd gpu's in the linux world, while nvidia made that switch I mentioned to open on the new stuff, that was in 2024. AMD started their effort in 2015, its much more mature, and intel had open drivers for a bit over 10 years before that.

[–] UberKitten@lemmy.blahaj.zone -3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I am well aware. avoiding all that bullshit is exactly why I continue to use Windows and would never advocate Linux blindly for desktop use.

[–] curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 4 points 1 week ago

While I understand, that is what continues the problem btw. Supporting the company doing what is needed to make a switch to Linux easier is what will take away the problem, for better or worse.

I'll also note I have regular issues Windows machines and GPUs, honestly its more of a pain in the ass to me. Specifically multi-monitor configs appearing as a single desktop - incredibly easy on Linux, while on windows I have to use Mosaic, and windows updates constantly break those configs. Among quite a few other things, but thats different territory.

I have no qualms about recommending/advocating for Linux, because I know quite well what I can and can't do with it, as well as how to explain how to set it up to work easily. I have a lot of reservations about Windows use, because it can be such an absolute nightmare in some situations, and unlike Linux, there is no ability for me to fully take control and set things up right the first time.

"Avoiding all that bullshit" is extremely dependent on what bullshit you're avoiding.

[–] 6mementomorib@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 week ago

set up?