Games
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Video games
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- !gaming@Lemmy.world: Our sister community, focused on PC and console gaming. Meme are allowed.
- !photomode@feddit.uk: For all your screenshots needs, to share your love for games graphics.
- !vgmusic@lemmy.world: A community to share your love for video games music
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It's a small computer, it isnt going after the Xbox or PS5 customers. It's going for the people who want a computer in their living room.
This comment is so silly and yet I keep seeing it everywhere. What do you think the Xbox and Playstations are? What is it that xbox and playstation customers are looking for that this small computer isn’t?
Consoles.
I have a hard time even figuring out what you’re trying to ask here.
Consoles are just small computers lol
Don’t know what else to tell you. Person I replied to said console customers aren’t interested in consoles. That’s silly
No, it isn’t, in practice. Xbox and PS5 have more in common with my iPhone than my desktop PC or NAS when it comes to being able to do what I want with it.
It will be interesting to see how proprietary the Steam machine is. That’s how I’d end up classifying it as console or miniPC.
The steam deck is also a small PC, just like the consoles and was priced perfectly for success
None of those consoles would directly boot into desktop Linux with just a few button presses.
They actually do, they’re just locked down from factory
https://github.com/SleepTheGod/PS5_Linux_Boot/blob/main/README.md
Remember that PS2 natively supported this and modern consoles like the Switch can boot directly into desktop Linux.
I said "with a few button presses," not "after hacking it and booting from external media."
So what you’re saying because Valve supports it out of the box is the limiting factor between a console and pc
The hardware supports it; it could be a PC if you want.
You skipped over the PS2 and how it was a console and marketed with Linux support directly from Sony
Let alone Yellow Dog Linux on the PS3
https://youtu.be/lSP9b4Qcu4M
A clever enough person can get a useable general-purpose OS running on just about any hardware. The entire point is that it's user-friendly out of the box.
So user friendly Linux running on it makes it not a console? For a while PS3 was just a couple button presses to get a full Linux distro booted on it. I don’t think anyone would argue PS3 wasn’t a console.
No, it just means a console that doesn't support booting directly into a general-purpose OS isn't a PC.
Totally agree there. MacBooks don’t even really qualify there and even probably near future when newer Windows devices come locked down.
Wrong. MacBooks can dual boot Linux (windows too on the Intel MacBooks), and you can download code from wherever and run it. There’s a terminal you can run commands in. If you want, you can completely fuck it up. macOS is worlds apart from iOS, and MacBooks are more a proper computer than probably even the Steam machine we’re discussing here.
Actually the current M-series are struggling to be feature complete on Linux, so while what you say was true for the Intel Macs, that is wilting away.
You can still dual boot operating systems. The fact Asahi isn’t complete yet doesn’t matter. If ARM Windows was worth a damn you could dual boot that too.
They’re computers.
The pedantic argument was about personal computer, not just computer. I believe it was along the lines of push a few buttons, not hack the OS. Sorry I made you mad talking about MacBooks.
You don’t make me mad by being wrong. You don’t have to “hack the OS” to dual boot a MacBook.
You have to hack another OS to load it on a MacBook. Try running Linux on an M3, M4, or M5 today. Not yet possible.
Edit: Even the M1 and M2 Linux support was entirely reverse engineered. The hardware is not open, it’s not a personal computer.
That’s not hacking, that’s development. They’re not bypassing locked bootloaders. If Apple pushes for making it impossible to run another operating system that’s another downgrade for sure, but you can still run whatever code you want on them, ergo, it’s a computer. It’s got a terminal, you can write and run your own code, you can download unsigned binaries, you can delete stuff and break the OS, that’s a computer.
Try running anything on an Xbox Series S/X or PS5. Locked bootloader means you’re fucked from the start, and getting past that is hacking.
That’s like saying an unlocked Pixel phone is a PC because you could technically develop an OS for it. Unlocked bootloader doesn’t an open system make.
I think we’re using different terms for hacking. You are using the exploit definition.
Yeah, that could very well be a PC. You could take the guts out, put it in a generic box, attach a monitor and peripherals, and have a Linux PC that drastically outperforms PCs of a couple decades ago, with similar functionality. Those were PCs then, why would the definition change?
Regarding the exploit definition, yeah, that’s the good one IMO. The other one is more akin to “life hacks” or “food hacks” and I think it’s silly. Using a butter knife as a screwdriver isn’t a “tool hack.” Putting Doom on a toothbrush isn’t hacking, provided no exploits were necessary. Putting Linux on a MacBook isn’t hacking just because it lacks documentation and the Asahi devs have to figure some things out before it works.
I would be curious to hear your definition of hacking, though. To me it seems if you’re calling Linux on Mac hacking, then there’s a million other things that are hacking and the word loses its meaning.
If Apple locks the bootloader then I’ll completely agree with you. And while I do agree it appears they’re heading in that direction and it sucks, a MacBook is far more “computer” than a console, even if poorly documented and thus difficult to develop for.
Hacking at the kernel to make it work on a new device is a valid definition of hacking IMO.
Hacking [something together] - building something quickly to make it work not necessarily a robust inplementation.
As far as how most people use their computers there is little difference.
I don't use my PS5 to surf the web. I know you can use it to watch movies and stuff, but I don't use it for that either.
At best, it depends on what kind of user most of the console owners are.
It’s odd that the PS4 has a web browser, and that the PS5 has mouse and keyboard support, but neither has both
Having more features and flexibility than other consoles doesn’t take away its main function and selling point.
I’m not really following your response. Steam Machine’s feature set doesn’t make the Xbox Series X/S or PlayStation 5 into computers. Yes, they’re x86, but they’re so proprietary and locked down they’re not computers in the colloquial sense.
If the Steam Machine can dual boot Linux, which I bet it can, that’s much more a general purpose computer than either of those consoles.
I think the difference is that the Xbox and PlayStation are locked down to their respective ecosystems with monthly subscription and only one online store. Microsoft and Sony have almost guaranteed return based on that alone. If valve prices this as a loss leader what’s to stop a large corporation to buy 20k steam machines and use them as computers instead of consoles. Then valve is just eating that cost with no return on the other side.
The Ukraine military has been using steam decks on the front line Do you really think it’s affected their bottom line?
I know my case is specific but having a Jellyfin running on a Steam computer looks to me as good case for having a computer in the living room. Adding a TV applications to Steam such as Netflix is also a case. Then there are people who have their workstation close to the TV so they can use it instead of their laptop and just switch displays with one of these HDMI branching dongles.
Yup, I might try the Jellyfin thing as well. I currently use an app on the TV, but it's flaky and the TV keeps losing network randomly. Newer TVs at adding ads, so I'll need an alternative.
You are correct in that all technically fit the definition of computers. However consumers don't care about technical definitions or think rationally about purchases. They don't all do a rational analysis of the products on the market that would accomplish their goals and spend accordingly. They walk into GameStop and buy one of the boxes that makes call of duty show up on their living room tv. Just like the Deck fits the definition of a handheld computer with a built in screen and controllers for playing games but isn't stealing any customers from the switch.
Deck isn't selling millions and it's doing just fine. The Steam Machine will be a small computer box priced as such and there won't be a single person that decides to buy it over a ps5, and that's fine. Valve doesn't have to compete with consoles cause they don't make consoles.
Valve themselves have said that the Machine will not be priced like a console but like an entry level PC whatever that means. The only people that will notice this to buy it are people who already know what a PC is.
I don't have have an issue with the rest of your comment but this quote is factually wrong. The Deck actually has sold multiple millions of units.
I'd say the Deck isn't stealing customers from the Switch because they are filling different market niches. The Switch is a portable console with portable Nintendo games made for it. The Deck is a portable PC that gives you access to your entire Steam library on the go.
The GabeCube, however, could absolutely pull some customers of the PS5 and Xbox depending on the pricing - especially with Microsoft's demands that every part of the Xbox division see a 30% profit margin. The Big Three isn't going to become the Big Four, but I think it will make some ripples. Steam running in Big Screen mode is effectively a console interface, and it plays Call of Duty just like the consoles. And with Sony finally moving away from console exclusive games, it means that Steam has almost full parity with the libraries of both of the consoles going forward while also offering access to all kinds of indie games that the consoles don't. The GabeCube can play Call of Duty and Ghost of Tsushima, but it can also play Ultrakill and ~~Bloodborne~~ Nightmare Kart, and neither Xbox nor Playstation can say that.
Edit: And this doesn't even mention old games. The Steam library has access to all kinds of old games that never get ported to new consoles when a new generation releases, meaning that its library grows in step with the consoles but you can still play your old favorites without having to keep buying them again or keep your old consoles around.
Hard disagree. I think that's exactly who they're going after. That's why they added all the console features like CEC, wake on BT, background updates, and a controller-first interface.
I think that's pretty clearly who they've been targeting for >10 years with SteamOS.