this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2025
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Tell you what, we'll stop venerating Actual Existing Socialists when you guys quit dry humping plantation owners and genocidal war mongers.
Get Jefferson of the $20 and I promise never to quote Stalin again.
calling Stalin a socialist is like calling North Korea a bastion of freedom, associating with people like him is why its so easy for the shitty rich people to claim we are evil
Stalin was a committed Marxist-Leninist, and oversaw the world's first socialist state for the overwhelming majority of its most tumultuous period. He was no saint, but at the same time was no monster either. He is remembered by liberal historians as far worse than comtemporaries like Churchill who in actuality were far worse than Stalin.
As Nia Frome says, we can either distance ourselves from Stalin, and by extension the USSR and actually existing socialism, or we can fight back against bourgeois narratives about Stalin and the USSR, acknowledging their faults while being able to uphold their tremendous successes as examples of the possibilities of socialism in power. Historical nihilism, and throwing Stalin and by extension much of the early soviet union under the bus, was ultimately what allowed for liberalization within the USSR and partially contributed to the death of socialism in eastern Europe.
Demystifying Stalin
[8 min]
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[5 hr 51 min]
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Stalin's Major Theoretical Contributions to Marxism
Economic Problems of Socialism in the USSR
Dialectical and Historical Materialism
History of the CPSU (B)
The Foundations of Leninism
Marxism and the National Question
As for the DPRK, it isn't a utopia, but it's also a democratically controlled country. It has 3 major parties in power, the WPK has the broad majority of control while a social democratic party and a religious party also hold minor aspects of control. They have worker councils that allow for democratic decision making, and people for the most part have their needs taken care of by the socialist system they have. The DPRK is poor, but despite that achieve far greater metrics than peer countries at similar levels of wealth and development thanks to their socialist system.
Thank you for sharing these resources, bless you
No problem comrade! 🫡
He starved all of india, that's, like 1000 million people.
Sounds like you need to learn more about Churchill, because he was responsible for starving millions of people in Bengal. He had this to say:
Lovely.
The 1930s famine, on the other hand, wasn't forced, though. It was a combination of adverse weather conditions leading to lower crop yields, wealthy farmers called kulaks killing their livestock and burning their crops to "resist collectivization," and some degree of mismanagement. It's important to recognize that pre-1930s, Eastern Europe had regular famines as well, and that following collectivization the 1930s famine was the last famine outside of World War II (when the Nazis took Ukraine, the USSR's breadbasket). To pin that on Stalin alone is a serious mistake.
As for the DPRK, they have approval-based voting, and 3 political parties. There are also factory councils for direct worker management. On top of this, they have been strong allies to Palestine, Cuba, South Africa, and had close ties to the Black Panther Party.
My opinions are absolutely sane. My views are shared by orgs like PSL, FRSO, the Black Panther Party, and every major communist party in power throughout the world. Contrary to your pessimism, socialism is succeeding throughout the world, and we are progressing despite your protestations. I don't "idealize failure" or "worship dictators," I'm a practicing communist that organizes in real life and studies theory, even making my own intro Marxist-Leninist reading list. The "true" communism is the work of communists in real life building it, not the magic utopia free from sin that exists in your head.
I suggest you actually join an org and start reading theory.
wealthy farmers you say? doesn't sound like communism to me. And I knew you would try to say "oh it wasn't stalins fault" so I held off on him murdering thousands of his political opposition.
You worship a dictator and try to cover up the past, pretending like he did not do horrible things. Please point to where socialism is succeeding because I'm pretty sure it is in places that don't worship a mass-murderer. I suggest you start reading history.
The kulaks were a form of bourgeois-farmers that existed in Tsarist Russia. The 1930s was when the soviet union began collectivizing agriculture and creating cooperative farms. You're correct in saying that kulaks don't sound very communist, and you're right, that's why they fought against the communists who were trying to socialize farming, therefore making the famine far worse.
As for the Great Purge, the exact number of deaths is unknown, but the purge itself was necessary. The soviet union was infiltrated by huge numbers of fascists and former white army members, corrupt officials, and in many cases criminals. They weren't simply "political opponents," the socialist system was in an extremely dangerous position. The majority of those found guilty were simply expelled from the party, with some being sentenced to prison, and some of those being sentenced to death.
I don't "worship a dictator," nor do I cover up the past. I investigate the past, especially now that the soviet archives are (relatively) open. Stalin did do terrible things, like criminalizing homosexuality, and excess deaths absolutely occured because of his actions. At the same time, he wasn't a dictator, nor was the soviet system capable of such a position. I already linked a bunch of resources, but if you want a genuine critical look at Stalin, you should read Losurdo's Stalin: The History and Critique of a Black Legend. Losurdo only uses western sources for this, and it does an excellent job showcasing Stalin's genuine merits and failures.
Socialism is doing wonderfully right now. The PRC is the world's most advanced socialist state right now, soon to be the world's most developed country. Vietnam and Laos are also rising rapidly. The DPRK is doing surprisingly well now after decades of recovering from the Arduous March. Cuba is struggling with energy production, but solidarity from Vietnam and the PRC in the form of large solar panel construction has helped alleviate that. Nicaragua is doing okay, and Venezuela is in a tough position due to the US Empire's aggression, but even then good news still comes out.
I do read history, that's a part of my theory reading. I do my best to understand what did and did not work in historical socialism, and read history to better understand the context of the present day. Given that you didn't even know about Churchill's genocide of Bengal (or worse, didn't care), nor about the DPRK's ties to parties like the Black Panthers, nor the role of the kulaks, etc, I think you should take your own advice here as well. Theory, history, and joining an org should all be priorities for you.
ah yes murdering thousands of people was necessary because some of them might have been fascists, not like you could have just, removed them from office? Given that it was a dictatorship in which what Stalin says goes. and the PRC may be socialist internally but it is also practically the backbone of capitalism, giving thousands of companies cheap child labor to exploit for profit. I do agree that places like Vietnam should be given more attention for their success
The vast majority of those found guilty were just removed from office. Executions were reserved for those found guilty of treason, sexual assault, or other serious crimes. It wasn't just killing everyone suspicious. Furthermore, it wasn't a dictatorship, Stalin was contested numerous times throughout his service. The soviet model of democracy had many moving parts, and required a large group of people making decisons collectively, from the bottom to the top.
As for the PRC, child labor is illegal, and is actually more common among western countries. Chinese workers have recieved large pay increases year over year for decades. Purchasing Power in 2022 was 25 times higher than 1978. There was also a successful extreme poverty elimination campaign, I recommend reading The Metamorphosis of Yuangudui to see an example of the major transformations taking place due to dedicated and targeted poverty eradication.
As for Vietnam, they are largely playing by the same playbook China did. Once it becomes clear to the west that they are in fact still dedicated to socialism and not simply letting the west use them for cheap labor, they will likely recieve similar fearmongering China does today, just like the USSR recieved during its existence. Public perception is largely shaped by how beneficial the west sees other countries.
I'm not trying to be condescending here, I used to hold similar views to yourself, before I started taking theory and history seriously and joined an org. I really encourage you to seek more working class perspectives. The Black Panther Party is an excellent example of a group that is popular with the people, so hearing for the first time about how friendly they were with the DPRK can be shocking if you haven't already been digging into socialist perspectives on the 20th century and AES states.
I don't know if you know this, but something being illegal doesn't really stop it from happening, you said yourself that is more common in western countries, despite it being illegal in many western countries
I'm sure you can find an isolated case or two, but your point was that it's something common enough to be the backbone of western investment in China, and not the fact that China leveraged it's relatively cheaper labor power initially in order to gain access to production technology. These days wages are much higher, but production is so effective per labor hour that it's surpassed everywhere else. Child labor is strictly forbidden by law in China.
Mate, you were doing genocide denial for fucking Churchill. Don't pretend you've actually read any history.
least literate pro-murderer I am very pro communist I am just anti mass-murder
Lol. You were defending Churchill
since when is calling someone a piece of shit defending them?
Which end of Korea hosted the anti-Japanese resistance movement, again? Which end of Korea is still filthy with Japanese collaborators and their heirs and benefactors to this day? What was the Bodo League Massacre and how did it instigate the war? Which country held parliamentary elections starting in 1948, free from the influence of an outside occupying government? What is Juche and how did it inform redevelopment following the war? Which country spends more on its military by a factor of 8x, primarily through grants and loans from its allies?
I'm sure you could talk shit about North Korea for hours, days even, based on what your tabloid press has punched into your ears. I gotta wonder if you've even once heard how North Korean expats arrive in the South or are treated by their "liberators".
ah yes "one side sucks so clearly that means the other side is absolutely perfect" you are fucking disgusting, people like who are why we never get any progress. You idealize tyranny and oppression because you have been lied to and told it is communism while true communists cannot get anywhere because of filth like you celebrating nations that murder anyone who has an opinion.
It's funny to hear liberals defend the genocidal members of the Democratic Party by insisting "we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good".
But when you're a guerrilla resistance fighting of the Japanese at their most bloodthirsty, or a country that's painstakingly recovering after suffering more bombings in a year than all of Europe suffered in four, the bar gets raised through the roof.
You are living under a totalitarian regime right now, you big dummy. You don't seem to mind.
lmao you think I'm defending the genocidal losers who only still have any power because half the country is worse than them, this country is a shitshow, but worshiping dictators will not fix it. If you want actual change you need to push for progress instead of idealizing a shit past, grow up.
You're idealizing a shit past with your fucking churchill whitewashing
If the shoe fits
wow amazing argument clearly you are very intelligent. Meanwhile you are actively defending North Korea a nation that will kill its citizens for just trying to leave
If this was any other county, you wouldn't consider it an insult.
Why do you feel the need to hate a foreign people this much? They have no impact on you whatsoever.
so wanting people to have the freedom to leave a country if the want is hating?
What?
Talks about progress - Denies churchill's genocide.
I don't want your "progress", kkkolonizer
It's also like...
Calling january 6 funny
Calling russians humans
Calling tankman a video
Calling nordstream 2 sabotaged by usa
Calling moldovan elections rigged by the eu
They're all provably true, yet liberals will always lie about them.
abandoning someone because our class enemies lie about them is one of many reasons why the western left is so fucking useless
These people are unhinged I'm just not gonna engage anymore for my mental health.
It's amazing watching Reddit shit libs come to Lemmy and have existential crisis about encountering beliefs they disagree with.
It's amazing watching tankie jerkers automatically assume they know exactly who people are within 2 seconds of talking to them.
Well you people make it pretty easy