Listen, i’m not saying his time isn’t coming to an end at the elite level. But one poor season in 23 years does not call for some of the revisionism occurring here lately. Arguably, the defences he’s still producing (2022, 2021, 2020) have kept the Patriots from rebuilding properly. It isn’t easy in this league to escape from 8-8 hell without a franchise QB.
“Brady made him”. You can use whatever stat you want here, but let’s use the most basic one. Points allowed per game. Of course there are influences here. Time of possession, special teams, ability to generate turnovers. But at its most basic level this is what determines the result of a game.
Brady had 20 seasons as a Patriot. He had a top 10 defence in 17 of them. In 3 super bowl victories, the Patriots played 3 of the top 15 offences in NFL history. 01 Rams, 16 Falcons and 18 Rams. 17 points, 22 points(pick six), 3 points. Even throw the record breaking 04 Colts in there, 3 pts. If we change to PTS per drive, he still has 15 top 10 defences!
Manning had 4, Rodgers had 3, Brees had 2. All three had great ball security and time of possession.
Is Brady the GOAT, yes. His consistency in clutch moments puts him ahead of the likes of Peyton and Rodgers. Did he make Bill the greatest defensive mind in history, no!
Brady record when scoring 20+in the playoffs: 32-4. Rodgers is 12-9 in this statistic for a direct comparison.
Average finish in points per drive among notable QBs
Brady: 9th
Rivers: 15th
Peyton: 18th
Rodgers: 18th
Brees: 20th
Mahomes: 20th
And we are trying to pretend Bill didn’t give Brady a significant advantage over his peers? Another 2 super bowls as a DC.
The answer is BOTH. It took both the greatest coach of all time having the greatest quarterback of all time to produce the unprecedented success the Patriots had in this century.
The percentage is irrelevant. Neither would be what they eventually became without the other.
Even Brady has talked about how important Bill was in building him into the QB he became. No HC is going to win to the playoffs without an above average. Mac simply isn’t that guy. He’ll be a decent backup though.
It's 100% both. Neither is the GOAT in their respective careers without the other, but together they were the perfect storm of greatness that made them the GOATs. Brady/Belichick don't have that prolific success without the consistent greatness the other provided. That doesn't mean they aren't the GOATs, they are...There's a handful of players/coaches in the history of the league with that potential, but so few will reach even being a part of the argument because they'll never exist at the exact same time on the same team in the best situation. The closest we can see is the Chiefs current situation and even THAT one isn't as perfect as the Belichick/Brady pairing. We witnessed greatness and neither should be denied what they provided each other.
Exactly. You don’t get that level of success without both the QB and HC being top 5, arguably top 1, in both of their respective positions. It’s funny that people use both of them to tear the other down these days. Like Brady was only good because he always had a top defense, and Belichick was only good because he had a GOAT QB. Which one is it?
If I had to give a slight nod to one or the other to get more credit it’d have to be Bill, just because he was also the GM during that time, which is pretty crazy considering how many people are god awful at being a HC or a GM.