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I really question the value in my time of trying to get through to you on a subject where ostensibly you are just spouting hearsay about shit you have read in western news outlets but I will try to give you some stuff to read to support what I am saying you and can decide for yourself what you want to believe.
Could have fooled me. You should do research on topics before speaking with any kind of authority on them.
This is probably one the areas I need to look more into overall, but working conditions in China are improving year over year. These changes have been slow, but they have also been consistent. Overall the people working in these terrible 996 conditions has been a fraction of the overall worker population - China has 1.5 billion people in their country remember. Not to mention this practice has been widely condemned in China, though again implementation of these laws can be slow which is definitely a valid criticism.
In this capacity I think it is also important to remember that China is a developing country and is very dissimilar from the US in this regard, but the US is probably one of the best analogs in terms of the economic size (at least in my opinion) though China has surpassed us by about $10T at this point. China has a deep history of colonial oppression and exploitation that they are still dealing with and resolving. What is demonstrably provable is that the workers within China are becoming more and more satisfied with their labor conditions year over year AND the Chinese governments is very serious about investigating and resolving labor disputes.
https://annas-archive.pm/md5/04a9e01f4e923fcbc2e184b4a66806ac
https://ash.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf
The numbers show that more and more of the businesses within China are falling under state control - which is quite literally how that would work in a socialist system. The people control the government, the government controls the corporations, therefore the people control the corporations. China is actively working in reducing the control of billionaires with in society as they make public more of the companies.
https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/2023/chinas-state-vs-private-company-tracker-which-sector-dominates
There has been a marked drop in the number of billionaires in the country as they have cracked down on exploitation and corruption. This is not indicative of some monumental economic town turn (like I said before China has a $10T larger economy than the US) but rather indicative of them regulating things to bring down prices for their citizens for common goods and services.
https://statisticstimes.com/economy/united-states-vs-china-economy.php
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-lost-36pc-billionaires-three-years-rich-list-hurun-economy-2024-10 (the framing of this article is stupid as fuck)
The Nordic model is actively failing because of growing privatization in these countries too. Just because there are regulations on corporations doesn't mean you are safe from the intrinsic need of private corporations to grow as the parasitic entities they are. It's definitely better than what we are doing in the US, but the US is also one of the most backwards nations in the world for our level of wealth and power in regards to working tirelessly to fuck over the average person at the behest of like 5 pedophilic billionaires.
https://www.cpreview.org/articles/2023/5/debunking-the-glam-of-the-nordic-model
I want to make it clear that I am in no way saying that China is perfect or that I agree with everything they are doing. But it is precisely the fact that China IS representative of the will of the people that they enjoy such an overwhelming amount of support from their citizens. The fact that China is engaged in a centrally planned, controlled and regulated form of state run capitalism is the exact reason they are able to construct these long term visions for the future. The communists in charge of the nation have effectively put a harness on the western capitalist need to find the cheapest place to manufacture things and have used that to propel themselves to the forefront of progress. They've done this faster than any nation in human history and at a scale that has never been seen before.
https://progressive.international/blueprint/cb7dbaf4-b106-4105-8bde-fdab4bfc2fe8-building-whole-process-peoples-democracy-in-china/en/
China has an extremely robust democratic process. Just because they also put special emphasis on taking feedback from their citizens at all times doesn't mean they aren't also voting. China has several political parties as well, it's not just the one party that is currently in power.
https://progressive.international/blueprint/cb7dbaf4-b106-4105-8bde-fdab4bfc2fe8-building-whole-process-peoples-democracy-in-china/en/ (yes I linked this twice but it is a really good read)
Please don't make me regret all the time I spent putting this together.
Look who's being deceptive.
I go out of my way to point out I'm no expert and don't know much beyond what's common knowledge, and yet you start out with this piece of nonsense:
I'm not claiming any authority, so don't pretend I did.
So what you're saying is that I'm right. This does happen. And also:
So you don't actually know as much as you're trying to claim.
My point is that this 996 schedule would be unimaginable anywhere in Europe. We've got labour protections that China apparently doesn't.
And of course it's great that China is moving in a better direction, I'm not denying that, but as long as abusive practices like these can happen in major corporations, you can't really claim to take better care of your workers than Europe. (Europe is also still far from perfect, and varies wildly per country of course, but I'd say we're doing this a lot better than the US and China.)
Wait, is this a "we're too big to do it right" argument? I usually hear that when people defend America's lack of healthcare, labour protections or abundance of murder. It's a bullshit argument. There's no good reason why a large country couldn't do this. Sure, individual European countries aren't that big, but the EU as a whole is half a billion people with an economy comparable to the US and China, and despite having all these diverse different countries with their own laws, none of them allow these sort of labour conditions. Though I must admit here too enforcement is sometimes lacking and real slavery has happened. But not by major corporations, because it gets punished harshly when discovered. It's usually people taking advantage of migrant workers.
That is awesome news, and I look forward to the time when China's labour conditions surpass those of Europe. But it's not there yet.
And developing? It's pretty industrialised, and has a lot of high tech industry. Keep in mind that the EU has a lot of former Soviet-bloc countries that were dead poor when the USSR collapsed, and are now doing much better. Or look at the development of Finland or Ireland over the oast century. Those weren't colonisers, but colonised.
That's only true if the people actually do control the government. I never hear about elections in China, and elections don't mean a lot when the government controls all information. And Chinese leaders often seem to have that cult of personality thing that you often see in dictatorships.
Personally, I'd rather see companies controlled by the workers rather than by the state.
Failing? Last I checked they're still topping all the happiness, freedom, equality and lack of poverty charts.
Of course they have problems; no country is perfect and there's always room for improvement. And social democracy is a compromise between socialism and capitalism.
That is true, but with strong labour rights, antitrust enforcement and progressive taxation, it seems to be working quite well, actually. You do need constant vigilance of course, but show me a system where that's not the case.
You've pointed this out several times already, and I have to admit it's the first time I've heard this. As far as I can tell, China has taken away democracy in Hong Kong. I never heard about elections there. All media seem to be under strict government censorship. From what I've heard, you can't even talk publicly about Winnie the Pooh, because that's taken as mocking Xi.
I'll try to read up on China's democratic processes, but for now I remain skeptical.
You seem to have made up your mind and are not willing to see other perspectives at all. Live in your anti China bubble all you want there's clearly no fruit to be had in this conversation as you willfully twist my words in bad faith efforts to justify your pre existing biases.
What a waste of time writing all that up when you clearly only read what I said and none of the articles I spent time to collect to back my statements.
Shameful. The westoid brain really is one full of holes to make them feel better about themselves.
Read what I wrote. I am considering other perspectives right here. Are you? You seem to see this as a contest that needs to be won by condemning your opponent, instead of an honest exchange of information and views.
I said I'll look into these issues you raised, and I will. But a claim is not proof, and I've explained why I'm skeptical about some of your claims, while also expressing the possibility that you might be right. What more do you want? Are you here for an honest conversation at all?