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We have a choice between doing business with a despot who frequentlt and publicly targets his own allies, reneges on past promises and whose mood and opinion changes depending on whatever the most recent thing he has seen on Fox News, or a despot who has in all likelihood done utterly terrible things to his own people.
Shit all round really, but this is real-politik. If Trump was a reliable partner we'd be staying where we are.
Xi might be a cunt, but at least hes consistent
Xi understands basic economic principles including international relations.
He may be a complete shit, tut he isn't a complete moron. Trump is always the stupidest person in the room bragging about how he's the smartest person in the room.
Running from one superpower dependency to another.
Lateral move at best.
Xi cares about Xi.
For the tankie who inevitably wull ackshuallys me: https://www.reuters.com/world/china/nobody-is-safe-chinas-xi-targets-his-close-ally-purge-2026-01-26/
That’s what Xi does to his closest friends.
The article I saw yesterday about this Gen. Zhang Youxia said he was leaking sensitive information to the US. I wonder why Reuters declined to mention this accusation.
It seems like, maybe, with a title like "nobody is safe", the authors are trying to scare us more than they're trying to inform us.
It's also a bit strange that they're spinning the fact that this guy's status and personal connections didn't make him immune as a bad thing. If we were talking about western politics this would be a virtue.
Sure he was. 🙄
The question isn't whether he was committing treason. The question is why would the author of the article omit this information. It's highly relevant, even if you don't believe it's true.
Again, the article's title ("Nobody is safe") is expressly written to invoke fear. The article's author could've written "... And he is accused of leaking information to the west; a flimsy excuse." or something, but they chose not to included that information.
Yes China sucks to do business with. However currently they suck a tiny bit less than dealing with Trump's constant tantrums and the rest of the USA sycophants.
EU is getting the 2nd free trade agreement this year...
First with Mercosur, today we signed one with India...
As an Australian, hopefully Australia next. Australia's also has an easier movement of people clause, which would be awesome.
But I do wish they'd stop calling then free trade agreements, they aren't, they are just trade agreements.
The SHART OF THE DEAL.
This is what happens when you have a know-nothing real-estate failson dumbass elevated to a position like this and an adoring bunch of cult members in the base that result in the rest of the Republicans being afraid to hem Crazy Uncle Liberty in.
正如计划的那样 🙏👓
What a surprise.....
The world will be a better place with China as a more dominant world power. People are going to get a taste of what real cheap and well made commodities are like without the looming threat of economic warfare. They are gonna get electrified infrastructure with cheap solar panel tech.
Well everyone except the US. We will continue to rot and suffer as our political class insists that if we only deregulate our industries for a few billionaires to jerk each other off over while actively working to collaborate with and bolster the fascist elements of the owner class.
The future is socialist. The US is hellbent on staying in the past and wants to drag everyone down with them.
Is China socialist, though? I keep seeing them labeled as being communist and socialist but they seem like something else altogether.
It's more like a state controlled capitalism. They do tons of business, have plenty of billionaires, exploited workers working ridiculous hours, hunger wages, etc., but without the ability to vote or access information freely.
It's not a model to emulate.
It's more like a state controlled capitalism.
Which is really the definition of fascism.. But so is the US to a large extent.
Definitely.
Especially under Trump, but also at various times in the past, has the US used corporations as an extension of foreign policy, and used foreign policy to help major corporations. Not just wars for oil (the most obvious case), but also leaking intelligence to help US companies, or using US companies to hurt people abroad that the US disagrees with (like ICC judges).
I don't know how many examples there are of China doing similar things. Around the introduction of 5G phone networks, the US was paranoid about Huawei involvement because China might use it to spy on us. Their control is such that they could. No idea if it's actually happening. But US cloud platforms are definitely sharing data with the US government.
Why are you lying and framing things in this deceptive way?
Yes people in China go to work like everyone else. Yes they have billionaires but that class is shrinking every year as China implements further restrictions on them - its one of the current primary goals of the CPC.
Yes there is inherently exploitation there but they are working very similar hours to many of our citizens. The difference being their government actually provides for them when they work 45+ hours while American citizens are doing that more of then than not working several jobs to still not be able to survive.
Chinese citizens get paid less than US citizens do on average but their cost of living is also drastically lower because of wildly socialized programs of housing, medicine, transportation, etc.
China has a consultative Democratic structure which seeks robust input from its citizens on issues that they need solved and then actually prioritizes them. It's a massive part of their culture.
Chinese people literally access the western internet all the time with VPNs that the government really doesn't crack down on or care about.
All of this is really easy information to find in both western and eastern sources. I guess that is kinda hard for you to get to when you are hellbent on spreading easily disprovable propaganda tho.
The citizens in China have some of the highest approval ratings of any country in the world and express that they believe overwhelmingly it is Democratic, though not perfect.
I can't wait to hear about how you also think they are doing genocide in Tibet and Xingjang next lmao.
What model do YOU think we should be emulating?
I'm not trying to deceive anyone. From what I can tell, China's labour protections don't seem to be any better than those of the US. Wasn't Alibaba known for demanding employees work 12 hours per day, 6 days per week? The infamous 996 schedule.
I've also heard of iPhone factories with nets to catch employees trying to commit suicide. I'd love to believe these are rare extremes, but these are also very large companies, not some fringe outfits.
What I would expect from an actual socialist system is the workers controlling the factories and receiving the profits, the people having a vote in everything, and not having an untouchable ruling class that's above accountability and can draw more power to themselves.
How well that would work, I don't know, but a better compromise between that and capitalism would be the Nordic model with strong labour protections and strong unions. In any case, the US is a very poor model to emulate, unless you want cut throat capitalism.
I'm sure there are a billion things I don't know about China, and with China being such a closed society and censored internet access, there's a lot I can't know. I'd love it if you could set me straight on the details around these an other issues. I'm just here pointing out what little I know, and why that gives me the impression of state capitalism instead of socialism. It seems to be combining the worst of both worlds.
China does seem to be good at getting competent leaders to the top, though. I'm frequently frustrated by the amateurs and clowns dominating global politics, and often China seems to be the only one capable of a constructive long term vision. It's undeniable that the mix of democracy with cut throat capitalism and extreme inequality leads to corruption, as we're seeing in the US and Russia.
But you can't really say you represent the people if you deny them a vote.
I really question the value in my time of trying to get through to you on a subject where ostensibly you are just spouting hearsay about shit you have read in western news outlets but I will try to give you some stuff to read to support what I am saying you and can decide for yourself what you want to believe.
I’m not trying to deceive anyone
Could have fooled me. You should do research on topics before speaking with any kind of authority on them.
China’s labour protections don’t seem to he any better than those of the US. Wasn’t Alibaba known for demanding employees work 12 hours per day, 6 days per week? The infamous 996 schedule.
This is probably one the areas I need to look more into overall, but working conditions in China are improving year over year. These changes have been slow, but they have also been consistent. Overall the people working in these terrible 996 conditions has been a fraction of the overall worker population - China has 1.5 billion people in their country remember. Not to mention this practice has been widely condemned in China, though again implementation of these laws can be slow which is definitely a valid criticism.
In this capacity I think it is also important to remember that China is a developing country and is very dissimilar from the US in this regard, but the US is probably one of the best analogs in terms of the economic size (at least in my opinion) though China has surpassed us by about $10T at this point. China has a deep history of colonial oppression and exploitation that they are still dealing with and resolving. What is demonstrably provable is that the workers within China are becoming more and more satisfied with their labor conditions year over year AND the Chinese governments is very serious about investigating and resolving labor disputes.
https://annas-archive.pm/md5/04a9e01f4e923fcbc2e184b4a66806ac
https://ash.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf
What I would expect from an actual socialist system is the workers controlling the factories and receiving the profits, the people having a vote in everything, and not having an untouchable ruling class that’s above accountability and can draw more power to themselves.
The numbers show that more and more of the businesses within China are falling under state control - which is quite literally how that would work in a socialist system. The people control the government, the government controls the corporations, therefore the people control the corporations. China is actively working in reducing the control of billionaires with in society as they make public more of the companies.
There has been a marked drop in the number of billionaires in the country as they have cracked down on exploitation and corruption. This is not indicative of some monumental economic town turn (like I said before China has a $10T larger economy than the US) but rather indicative of them regulating things to bring down prices for their citizens for common goods and services.
https://statisticstimes.com/economy/united-states-vs-china-economy.php
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-lost-36pc-billionaires-three-years-rich-list-hurun-economy-2024-10 (the framing of this article is stupid as fuck)
How well that would work, I don’t know, but a better compromise between that and capitalism would be the Nordic model with strong labour protections and strong unions. In any case, the US is a very poor model to emulate, unless you want cut throat capitalism.
The Nordic model is actively failing because of growing privatization in these countries too. Just because there are regulations on corporations doesn't mean you are safe from the intrinsic need of private corporations to grow as the parasitic entities they are. It's definitely better than what we are doing in the US, but the US is also one of the most backwards nations in the world for our level of wealth and power in regards to working tirelessly to fuck over the average person at the behest of like 5 pedophilic billionaires.
https://www.cpreview.org/articles/2023/5/debunking-the-glam-of-the-nordic-model
China does seem to be good at getting competent leaders to the top, though. I’m frequently frustrated by the amateurs and clowns dominating global politics, and often China seems to be the only one capable of a constructive long term vision. It’s undeniable that the mix of democracy with cut throat capitalism and extreme inequality leads to corruption, as we’re seeing in the US and Russia.
I want to make it clear that I am in no way saying that China is perfect or that I agree with everything they are doing. But it is precisely the fact that China IS representative of the will of the people that they enjoy such an overwhelming amount of support from their citizens. The fact that China is engaged in a centrally planned, controlled and regulated form of state run capitalism is the exact reason they are able to construct these long term visions for the future. The communists in charge of the nation have effectively put a harness on the western capitalist need to find the cheapest place to manufacture things and have used that to propel themselves to the forefront of progress. They've done this faster than any nation in human history and at a scale that has never been seen before.
But you can’t really say you represent the people if you deny them a vote.
China has an extremely robust democratic process. Just because they also put special emphasis on taking feedback from their citizens at all times doesn't mean they aren't also voting. China has several political parties as well, it's not just the one party that is currently in power.
https://progressive.international/blueprint/cb7dbaf4-b106-4105-8bde-fdab4bfc2fe8-building-whole-process-peoples-democracy-in-china/en/ (yes I linked this twice but it is a really good read)
Please don't make me regret all the time I spent putting this together.
Look who's being deceptive.
I go out of my way to point out I'm no expert and don't know much beyond what's common knowledge, and yet you start out with this piece of nonsense:
You should do research on topics before speaking with any kind of authority on them
I'm not claiming any authority, so don't pretend I did.
Overall the people working in these terrible 996 conditions has been a fraction of the overall worker population
So what you're saying is that I'm right. This does happen. And also:
This is probably one the areas I need to look more into overall,
So you don't actually know as much as you're trying to claim.
My point is that this 996 schedule would be unimaginable anywhere in Europe. We've got labour protections that China apparently doesn't.
And of course it's great that China is moving in a better direction, I'm not denying that, but as long as abusive practices like these can happen in major corporations, you can't really claim to take better care of your workers than Europe. (Europe is also still far from perfect, and varies wildly per country of course, but I'd say we're doing this a lot better than the US and China.)
the US is probably one of the best analogs in terms of the economic size
Wait, is this a "we're too big to do it right" argument? I usually hear that when people defend America's lack of healthcare, labour protections or abundance of murder. It's a bullshit argument. There's no good reason why a large country couldn't do this. Sure, individual European countries aren't that big, but the EU as a whole is half a billion people with an economy comparable to the US and China, and despite having all these diverse different countries with their own laws, none of them allow these sort of labour conditions. Though I must admit here too enforcement is sometimes lacking and real slavery has happened. But not by major corporations, because it gets punished harshly when discovered. It's usually people taking advantage of migrant workers.
What is demonstrably provable is that the workers within China are becoming more and more satisfied with their labor conditions year over year AND the Chinese governments is very serious about investigating and resolving labor disputes.
That is awesome news, and I look forward to the time when China's labour conditions surpass those of Europe. But it's not there yet.
And developing? It's pretty industrialised, and has a lot of high tech industry. Keep in mind that the EU has a lot of former Soviet-bloc countries that were dead poor when the USSR collapsed, and are now doing much better. Or look at the development of Finland or Ireland over the oast century. Those weren't colonisers, but colonised.
The numbers show that more and more of the businesses within China are falling under state control - which is quite literally how that would work in a socialist system. The people control the government, the government controls the corporations, therefore the people control the corporations.
That's only true if the people actually do control the government. I never hear about elections in China, and elections don't mean a lot when the government controls all information. And Chinese leaders often seem to have that cult of personality thing that you often see in dictatorships.
Personally, I'd rather see companies controlled by the workers rather than by the state.
The Nordic model is actively failing because of growing privatization in these countries too.
Failing? Last I checked they're still topping all the happiness, freedom, equality and lack of poverty charts.
Of course they have problems; no country is perfect and there's always room for improvement. And social democracy is a compromise between socialism and capitalism.
Just because there are regulations on corporations doesn't mean you are safe from the intrinsic need of private corporations to grow as the parasitic entities they are
That is true, but with strong labour rights, antitrust enforcement and progressive taxation, it seems to be working quite well, actually. You do need constant vigilance of course, but show me a system where that's not the case.
China has an extremely robust democratic process
You've pointed this out several times already, and I have to admit it's the first time I've heard this. As far as I can tell, China has taken away democracy in Hong Kong. I never heard about elections there. All media seem to be under strict government censorship. From what I've heard, you can't even talk publicly about Winnie the Pooh, because that's taken as mocking Xi.
I'll try to read up on China's democratic processes, but for now I remain skeptical.
You seem to have made up your mind and are not willing to see other perspectives at all. Live in your anti China bubble all you want there's clearly no fruit to be had in this conversation as you willfully twist my words in bad faith efforts to justify your pre existing biases.
What a waste of time writing all that up when you clearly only read what I said and none of the articles I spent time to collect to back my statements.
Shameful. The westoid brain really is one full of holes to make them feel better about themselves.
Read what I wrote. I am considering other perspectives right here. Are you? You seem to see this as a contest that needs to be won by condemning your opponent, instead of an honest exchange of information and views.
I said I'll look into these issues you raised, and I will. But a claim is not proof, and I've explained why I'm skeptical about some of your claims, while also expressing the possibility that you might be right. What more do you want? Are you here for an honest conversation at all?
Did I say they were socialist? I didn't.
I could go over the laundry list of reasons why they are not socialist but are very much implementing the exact kinds of policies a socialist would implement. Remember that socialism is a transitionary society organization. China has not yet achieved its minimum program yet in regards to uplifting all of its citizens to a baseline of existence yet. But every day they are getting closer and closer to that reality.