this post was submitted on 19 Feb 2026
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Dbzero Governance Vote Post https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/63525728

Ahoy mateys!

A few of our users have recently pointed out that a lot of the pro-Zionist accounts on the fediverse nowadays seem to come from the feddit.org instance.

But whatever the excuse happens to be, they need to do better imo. Israel is currently the most violent, fascist and genocidal nation state in the Middle East (if you exclude the US military bases there). And yet feddit.org seems to regard the Palestinians fighting against Israel’s ongoing illegal occupation of their land as the real terrorists. ....

More context

Our instance already voted to ban pro-Zionist accounts (see https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/60585441 for reference) and the rule that was implemented is here: Golden Rule #8.

As further context, you can find relevant comments and discussion in this post by a banned feddit admin in MoG (that fact they chose to post in MoG is in itself quite telling), and this post about their defederation from quokk.au over anti-semitism allegations has recently become active again. ...

Note 2: If you think feddit.org deserves a full instance ban instead, or have alternative suggestions, then please leave your comments below. If enough people think that’s the better option, then we’ll do that instead.

In the end the Post had around 70% of support by dbzer0 users, who in the comments also called for defederation.

Here is a Link to Dbzer0 instances tab https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/instances where if you go to blocked instances you can see fedddit.org is now defederated

i dont think feddit has made a post now, but when they do i will add it

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[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 30 points 5 days ago (7 children)

I've noticed this too and have been following the conversation. However, I think self-isolation isn't the answer. Allowing r/The_Donald to go private didn't stop the far right.

What works is challenging these people, constantly. Mockery, abuse, whatever it takes. But building up echo-chambers, or allowing echo-chambers isn't the solution.

[–] Salamence@lemmy.zip 35 points 5 days ago (1 children)

its not really an echo chamber, lemmy unlike reddit is decentralised, so nothing is stopping a dbzero user from just making an account on feddit.org and interacting with them, in reddit if the admins decide to ban a community that community is just gone.

also having an echochambers isnt bad, like an instance like blahaj should be allowed to exist and not federate with instances that have a lax policy on transphobia, and thanks to lemmy's decentralised nature you can join or make an instance that does have wide federation

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 8 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Just because lemmy is decentralized doesn't mean it doesn't for echochambers. I mean look at ml. Or look at what squid did as a moderator to worldnews and political memes.

Echo chambers are absolutely a thing on lemmy. They exist at different scales (instance, sub, individual) but they absolutely exist.

[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 6 points 5 days ago

I mean look at ml.

You mean the place constantly flooded by disagreeing liberals? Let's be honest here; by "echo chamber" you just mean "place where my ideology isn't the default"

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 26 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Idk if it's building echo chambers in this case or just wanting to get away from a toxic admin.

See the comments and actively of them before the vote and then as it was happening

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 19 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (4 children)

Plenty have alleged that db0 admins are toxic. I don't think that but plenty have. See the ptb sub.

People throw around all kinds of slanderous language all the time: it's the internet, our accent is hyperbole. It's fine.

The bigger issue that I see here is the cultural tendency to not want your viewpoint challenged, and that's coming from both sides on this one. It's also an issue on ml and hexbear; and those instances will throw the same accusations right back in the face of the broader fediverse, and not be wrong.

Every defederation hurts the fediverse, and substantially. The issues that came up in 23' between .world and .ml, things like that destroy these kinds of projects. Defederation also doesn't change the minds of those who are on feddit, and for the db0, and versus vice. If you think someone is wrong, you should tell them so, and you need to be able to tell them.

I think it's the wrong move. I think defederation is always the wrong move. It's more important to fight about important things than it is to be comfortable right now. If db0 users think feddit is a bunch of fascist Zionists, then get into the comments and call them out. Don't just let them comfortably be Zionists while you ignore the problem. And the same applies to feddit. If they've got the right of it, take the fight and defend your points.

But defederation is a lazy and community damaging move, not just to db0, but to the entire project. Defederation is how Lemmy dies.

[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 35 points 5 days ago (5 children)

No. Having instances with varying approaches to defederation is good for the fediverse. Having no defederation is how you end up with nostr.

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[–] Feyd@programming.dev 14 points 5 days ago (1 children)

If my instance didn't defederate hexbear I wouldn't be on the fediverse at all.

[–] null@piefed.nullspace.lol 4 points 5 days ago (2 children)

What makes it different from just blocking the instance at user-level?

[–] snooggums@piefed.world 14 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Defederating also blocks the users on Lemmy. Instance blocking at the user level just blocks the communities in Lemmy, you have to block each user individually.

[–] Feyd@programming.dev 7 points 5 days ago (1 children)

It makes it so I don't have to individually block the myriad trolls that emanate from that cesspool. I was seriously a couple pig shit images from never opening this site again.

[–] ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world 7 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

I was reading the original discussion on dbzer0 and kept wondering what the removed by mod was under every comment agreeing with either partial ban or defed, so I looked at the modlog. It was literally the same pigshit picture posted over and over again, almost twenty times, by the same user, though fortunately I only had to see it once, by choice.

That's a serious personal commitment to assholery right there, and this is apparently just one of the people coming over to do this on dbzer0 comms. To be honest I can't claim to understand some of the political nuance that was coming up in the thread, but that one dude sure did make a strong argument for defed via the modlog, lol. If that's an example of what dbzer0 has to put up with from multiple individual users of another instance, then considering defederation is absolutely a legitimate discussion to have.

[–] Feyd@programming.dev 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

That appears to be a troll account from my instance that was created just to do that, but by that behavior they are almost certainly a hexbear. They'll never change

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 days ago

One might think so because the image is https://hexbear.net/PPB, but the person was responding to defenders of Zionism. So a Hexbear-hating Zionist seems more likely.

[–] frostedtrailblazer@lemmy.zip 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I think defederation only really makes sense if there is a concern of botting. Individual bad actors should be banned on a case by case basis, blanket banning seems shortsighted. However, I do believe there are bots on some instances now, compared to say a year ago where I believe they were more far and few between.

Part of my issue is also with bad actors “flooding the zone”. If enough noise is getting pushed constantly by bad actors/bots, it can sway public opinion just by virtue of people seeing those opinions more often. This was one of the things that killed Reddit for me, personally. Well that and a slew of other issues.

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 4 points 5 days ago

I think defederation only really makes sense if there is a concern of botting. Individual bad actors should be banned on a case by case basis, blanket banning seems shortsighted. However, I do believe there are bots on some instances now, compared to say a year ago where I believe they were more far and few between.

This is what I agree with. Regardless, I think almost the entire thread would agree that the fediverse/ lemmy is not fully cooked when it comes to the issue of federation.

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[–] Steve 12 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Building an echo chamber isn't something done intentionally. Well... Sometimes it is.
It's most often created by avoiding people you find annoying, toxic, etc. As long as you keep up that reasoning you eventually only interact with people who mostly agree with you. You're blinding yourself to counter opinions. The definition of an echo chamber.

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 5 days ago (1 children)

When avoiding ideas or being challenged yes. When avoiding abuse no

[–] Steve 7 points 5 days ago

The former often feels like the later.
Even more so when you're not used to it.

[–] Nemo@slrpnk.net 6 points 5 days ago (1 children)

This is only the case if you're annoyed by people disagreeing with you. That's what makes echo chambers.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 9 points 5 days ago (3 children)

You’re right, we should continue listening to the opinions of fascists and Lolita Express passengers until the end of time, otherwise we’ll be blindly bumping into furniture in our echo chamber.

[–] Nemo@slrpnk.net 7 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I think you misread my comment. I agree that we shouldn't let the fascists speak. I'm arguing against the comment above that says blocking fascists is a slippery slope to blocking everyone.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 5 points 5 days ago
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[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 18 points 5 days ago

Feddit.org bans criticism of Israel. There is no point in a Zionist instance which does not allow debate on its own turf.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 21 points 5 days ago (13 children)

The idealist, liberal myth of the “marketplace of ideas,” in the face of domestic and Israeli fascism.

Socialists—and in particular antifascists & Marxists—understand the paradox of tolerance.

Antifa: the Anti-fascist Handbook

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 10 points 5 days ago (2 children)

You can't change the mind of someone you don't have access to.

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 9 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Yes, that's the idea, making sure that Zionists don't have access to anyone.

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[–] humble_boatsman@sh.itjust.works 7 points 5 days ago (17 children)

Does no one here understand the younger generations access to ideas? I think the idea that every one claims of creating echo chambers is not an effective one. The law of diminishing returns (as a business term) states that all else held equal an increase in production( or the free debate or posting of opinions) will not produce more profit after a certain point ( or the changing of others opinions) . When it comes to people posting and espousing for state sponsored genocide I think we have hit the top of that curve. If you stop the flow of that information you are not creating echo chambers but more effectively stopping the spread of bullshit and hate. They have Xhitter. Fucking ban this genocidal shit every chance you get, either foundationally or personally. I dont get a whiff of this on shitjust works because I dont engage with it.

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[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 16 points 5 days ago

We tried they still defending the terrorist statr of Israel. It's like debating neonazis it is useless

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 4 days ago

You're on an instance that is defederated from Hexbear.net and Lemmygrad.ml, though, both fairly popular instances. Why not move to Lemmy.zip, if you oppose defederation?

[–] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 10 points 5 days ago (6 children)

I mean, allowing echo chambers doesnt really seem avoidable on fedi tho? Like, only one side has to defederate to break two way communication, so if someone wants to avoid you, you cant really stop them, and the whole concept of moderation in a decentralized system relies on each instance being able to selectively view or block content from other instances based on the values of that instance. You cant really say "what works is challenging people" if the people you want to challenge have an "ignore" button for when you get too loud for their taste.

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