this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2023
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Using a social perspective to autism, I would appreciate if there were a way to classify someone as autistic without calling it a disorder. Yes, we have difficulties, but from a social perspective, a lot of them come from society being structured to meet the needs of allistics. They get guidance, acceptance, and ultimately privilege of a world that is designed for them, while we have to try to meet their expectations. From this perspective, we're not disordered, but oppressed/marginalized. How does that make us disordered?

I agree that there are different levels of functioning, and that some individuals might meet criteria for a disorder due to autism spectrum characteristics, so that would be valid. However, many individuals would function quite well in a setting that was designed to raise, educate, and accommodate autistic brains.

Anyone have any insight or ideas on this?

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[–] mikeboltonshair@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You do realize the word has a meaning?

“an illness or condition that disrupts normal physical or mental functions”

Generally people are born with 4 limbs because that is the normal, if you are born without them it’s abnormal you need to use words to classify things, the world operates on the norm… it wouldn’t make sense to make all cars be only able to operate for people who were born without limbs

Saying that, just because you have a disorder doesn’t make you any less of a person, anyone that thinks that is a moron.. basically don’t get hung up on a word, you had no choice in your biology/birth you just got what you got

They way you describe it as being oppressed or marginalized you are gonna be well on your way to always being a victim if you want to frame your worldview that way

[–] pizza-bagel@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mostly agree, except for the last part about marginalization. The idea you can always overcome whatever disability/disorder/whatever with hard work and the right mindset is not accurate at all. And that's not you wanting to be a victim, it's you advocating for what you need. Accommodations exist for everyone, they just cater to abled/neurotypical people instead. Once I finally admitted to myself I was disabled and stopped trying to live my life like I am 100% able bodied improved my life A LOT.

And disabled/chronically ill/neurodivergent people DO face a lot of discrimination regardless of if you want to admit it or not. We should be fighting for improvement in treatment, acknowledging people treat you like less of a person doesn't mean you actually are less of a person. ESPECIALLY in the current political climate... once LGBT+ people are dehumanized sufficiently disabled people are going to be next.

I can see how you interpreted that last part that way I didn’t mean it like that, what I was trying to say is I’m arguing that the word disorder is strictly that it’s a genetic disorder and having it doesn’t make you any less of a person it’s a biological issue

I’m not advocating a positive mindset cures all (otherwise depression and anxiety wouldn’t exist) and people with disabilities don’t experience hardships, of course they do but at the same time you are a person that can try to not allow others to dictate your feelings, life is hard enough as it is don’t let someone who looks down upon you determine your worth as their opinion is just that.. an opinion

[–] ristoril_zip@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 year ago

I feel like this is just a step toward throwing out the classification and description of individuals in terms of social norms and averages. Like, however it came to be (and I'm skeptical of your assertion that society has somehow been fashioned - presumably on purpose? - "to meet the needs of [so-called] allistics"), the society in which we live has bell curve distributions of many personality traits and capabilities and interests and on and on.

There is such a thing as the middle of the bell curve, the 1 standard deviation from the mean, etc. It's useful to call that something. We've called it "normal" or "typical" or whatever. And so people in the 2 std dev and higher bands are increasing magnitudes of "abnormal" or "atypical." So what?

Well, since time immemorial, being different could be dangerous to the survival of the group. So being different became pejorative. Only in the past couple hundred years have we began to appreciate that creative genius is almost always associated with "atypical" people. (Destructive genius, too.)

I think we're going through a time now where we're acknowledging that maybe more people have always been "atypical" but they concealed it for various reasons. I see my kids' generation as being particularly open to the variation that's apparently pretty natural in our species (or driven by microplastics and forever chemicals).

I don't think doing away with statistical analysis of populations is the way to go, though. A better approach, to my mind, is to do away with the negative connotation that still accompanies the diagnosis of being 2 or more standard deviations away from the mean. Certainly it's not coming up with a slew of new terms to replace "normal" or "typical."

[–] pizza-bagel@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

I don't disagree that neurodivergent people would have a way better time if people/society took them into consideration more. But I am low support needs and still consider it a disorder. My boyfriend has ADHD and agrees. While there are a lot of things that would be fixed by having sensory friendly environments for example, there are still a lot of things about being autistic that hinder me that I wish would go away regardless of what accommodations exist.

[–] MrPoopyButthole@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

As a person with ADHD, I totally hear you.

You're right that in a different world, built for any particular neurodivergence, the balance of challenges would be different.

For me though, I've learned to acknowledge that no fictional world-building could make me better at remembering names, faces, birthdays, the stories I've already told someone, or keep me from burning out my interest in new passions.

At the end of the day, despite people thinking I'm "smart" and getting along well with others, I'm constantly exhausted by the additional effort it takes and nobody sees the excessive downtime it takes for me to recharge.

I always think of GATTACA and how in a world of genetically modified rich people, a man has to hustle hard to blend in. It's a constant effort 24/7 just to create the illusion that I'm operating the same as everyone else.

The other thing is that most of the socioeconomic changes that would benefit me, would also benefit everyone else. Which is good, but means the balance would not be dramatically changed.

I've realized my internal discomfort with acknowledging my condition as a disability, stems from believing a disability makes me lesser. What has alleviated that discomfort is realizing that's not how people see each other in real life (in general).

My sense of being lesser, of unfair struggle, comes from capitalism exclusively valuing persons/things that best grow the wealth if those with capital.

I'm not lesser because I'm a bad person, or a stupid person. I FEEL lesser because the world I live in let's people die when they can't afford a hospital visit, and only values human life to the extent that it makes rich people richer.

It doesn't even matter if you bring greater value to the world with your art, if capitalists can't monetize it for themselves.

As capitalism's stranglehold tightens on everybody exponentially, the rest of the world is starting to get a taste if disenfranchisement for themselves. As more people recognize the root of so many problems, people will continue pushing for more radical change.

We might not live to see the best outcome of this fight, but know that you aren't fighting you struggles alone and your obstacles aren't your fault.

[–] Alexmitter@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Its a disorder, not calling it one is not making it any less of a disorder.